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foreign

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[Applause]

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foreign

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[Music]

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thank you

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yes hello from the Great Northern

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Wilderness I bid you all good evening

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good morning good afternoon wherever you

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may be Across the Nation around the

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world my name is Leah Prime and this is

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the invisible night school super excited

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to see people joining us week over week

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hello uh to the Earth and of course

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resident ins favorite Steve long really

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great to see you here week after week

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Michael Huntington nice to see you

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friend

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um let me see it's really exciting uh

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over and over every week to see people

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coming in Duncan

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hello red panda koala nice to see you

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dude

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um so tonight super excited to welcome

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Jeff Knox uh Jeff Knox known as Mr Jeff

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Knox on Twitter one of my personal

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favorite researchers in the community

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right now

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um has kind of claim to fame is

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presenting a pretty complete

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documentation and research every single

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day on a Case pertinent to the date if

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anyone isn't following him definitely

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recommend giving him a follow his

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thoroughness and documentation that he

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presents every day every single day is

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truly uh very impressive so um we're

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going to be having him on the show this

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evening and uh we do this just some

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scheduling snafus we have pushed Sarah

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schools out a couple weeks so she'll be

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joining us in early February

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I'd like to welcome of course my

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co-hosts onto the stream so I will bring

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on the inevitable Campbell

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the brilliant Louise

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our resident dubious Layman Nick good to

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see you friend

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and then of course I'll bring on Jeff

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hey guys how are you happy Wednesday

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yeah you too very well yeah happy

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Wednesday to you too Leah how are you

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doing

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uh you know it's just another day in

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paradise in like the Leo World

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um as I'm sure some of you are noticing

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I've been a little bit of disarray

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because I now have a standing desk

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instead of working at a dining room

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table like I have been for the last few

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months and as a result have kind of

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refactored my workspace which means my

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lighting's all [\h__\h] up my banner is

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all [\h__\h] up but I'm here and I'm

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um excited to talk about UFOs with some

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of the community's best and brightest

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Minds

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Nick how are you

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oh um I'm a little under the weather but

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covered free so that's good

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um I think it's just it's just allergies

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or something but otherwise good I'm

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doing good

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good

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Mr cultano yes all right

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so mysterious always

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so where do I want to start here

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um I mean

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when I when I came to Jeff about coming

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on the show uh having been familiar with

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his research I was just like look man

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whatever you want to do with the time is

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cool like if you just want to talk about

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your research methods that's great if

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you want to talk about particular cases

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you're a fan of that would also keep us

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all very happy

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um you know it it's I think at least for

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me infrequent that I come across someone

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with such an encyclopedic knowledge and

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background in the subject

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um so we'll have him on but then this is

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also going to be an open lines show so

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we'll be sharing the stream yard link

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for people to jump on and join the

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conversation if there's either questions

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you have for us things you want to

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contribute it can either be directly

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related or pertinent to what Jeff will

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be discussing um or if there's just

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stuff you want to uh to air out to the

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community or talk to ins about we want

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to hear it

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um I just want to you know curate the

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conversation a little bit before we get

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started

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do you guys just want me to maybe kind

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of introduce how I got into UFOs and UFO

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research to begin with

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let's do the how we met story

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okay well I I got into UFOs very young I

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uh literally as a child in elementary

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school I started reading through just

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tons of UFO books watching UFO

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documentaries and I was pretty heavily

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into it throughout the

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early internet years computer bulletin

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board years old phytonet UFO

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conversation years uh I let it lacks for

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a little while during school and whatnot

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but about 15 years ago I got really

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heavily into it again

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um I mean I was always doubting the

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topic but about 15 years I just started

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doing a very deep dive reading hundreds

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if not thousand UFO books

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um collecting as much material as I can

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and about 10 years ago I was fortunate

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enough to have the resources to be able

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to do this kind of full time and so I

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started doing my UFO research full-time

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traveling around the country going to

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conferences archives libraries I started

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getting into

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preservation and scanning and digitizing

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uh about seven years ago and that's kind

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of where I was focusing mostly the last

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few years and I got on Twitter this

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summer because I wanted to help share

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historical cases to kind of help point

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out the people that you posed didn't

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just start existing in 2017 or 2004 or

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all these new cases that people only

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seem to want to talk about I wanted to

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kind of present some of the historical

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evidence in cases that go back

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throughout history so I started doing

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these daily history posts and

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kind of where I am now

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and then I met up with you guys

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obviously there you go for Twitter and

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uh

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reactions from some of you like yeah you

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can just say it Jeff you can tell the

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story yeah basically this summer

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um via misunderstanding I give myself

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Life by a lot of people I had Jeff

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blocked for about three and a half

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months before I realized that he

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actually is as Earnest and kind and

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genuine as he is I think Twitter has

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poisoned my brain to assume that

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everyone who asked me a question has

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some like stupid cynical irony

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underpinning it but actually Jeff is

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just as nice as he seems he wasn't just

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done no he's not blocked anymore no no

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he wasn't dunking on me I dude I I can

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appreciate a good dunk I don't block

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people that dunk on me

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that's why you're stopped blocked Nick

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I'm still bought by a lot of people

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Twitter people don't really like

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skeptical viewpoints and I I have some

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strong skeptical viewpoints on cases but

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that gets me blocked by a lot of people

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but uh

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you know that's fine if anybody enjoys

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my research that's a good thing so no

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people should be talking more uh to each

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other uh Jeff and you know what why do

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you think of the people coming in these

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days who are new to the field uh you

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mentioned that briefly do you think it's

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a good thing that people are taking a

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look at this subject or uh do you think

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that there's cause for concern there

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I I think there's cause for concern for

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where these people are getting their

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information from a lot of the people

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coming in this field are getting it from

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some of these mainstream sources like uh

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you know Linda Moulton Howe Jeremy

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Corbell Ross Colt hurt places that

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really just aren't that critical and are

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known for presenting a lot of bunk out

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there to the audience uh I think it's

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great that people want to be interested

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in the topic I just think there's a lot

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of UFO misinformation disinformation out

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there and just bad information and

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unfortunately too many of the new people

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in this topic are being exposed to

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nothing but bad information or just

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uncredible information which is

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unfortunate because there's a lot of

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good resources out there and I think

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that's one of the saddest things about

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ufology is that a lot of the best

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researchers are utterly unknown to the

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vast majority of people interested in

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this topic they know the people they see

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on TV on Ancient Aliens on these other

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like schlocky TV documentaries they

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don't know the people that have been

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doing the hard work for the last 70

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years and I think that's sad

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but

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yeah oh go ahead Leah I was going to say

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that's

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talked about before how much of ufology

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really does exist outside Twitter like

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UFO Twitter is definitely its own

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particular microcosm

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Community it just sound like Niche I

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don't even consider UFO Twitter part of

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ufology to be honest just like I don't

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consider the Greer side to be part of

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ufology or some of these other sites

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they're kind of like these Fringe

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offshoots of like people that try to

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take this topic seriously

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um before we get too deep in this now

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you said you said a hot button word a

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trigger word for a lot of people which

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is a skeptic right

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this term skeptic and and I bring this

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up because

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um I I love to hear your thoughts on how

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you define and relate to that term or

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that word like what does skeptic

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actually mean to you uh when we're

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talking about ufology

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um I I think uh a skeptic

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would look at the information

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openly but short of any actual evidence

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I mean you kind of have to take it all

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with a grain of salt uh

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I mean like I consider Mick West a true

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skeptic and everybody hates Mick West I

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mean a lot of you from Twitter hates

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mcwest I think he's one of the best

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people involved in this field and I wish

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we had a thousand more of him and I've

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said that many times because he he looks

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at what we have without accepting

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unknowns and things that we can't prove

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and tries to come up with reasonable

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prosaic explanations for cases and I

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think that's what people need to do and

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I think it's sad that people

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dismiss people as Skeptics or dispunkers

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just because they don't happen to like a

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case they like or because they provide a

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prosaic explanation for a case you know

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almost all cases are going to have

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project explanations that's just a fact

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so

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or you know

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dismissive of people that have a

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skeptical Viewpoint I pointed out before

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that most of the people I know that have

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been research of this topic for 50 plus

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years a lot of old kufos people the

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people I'm involved with in this history

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group

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I'd say they have more in common with

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Mick West or other Skeptics than they do

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with the vast majority of ufology and

280
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:02,040
that's not to say they don't think

281
00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:03,360
there's anything to the topic quite the

282
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:05,100
opposite they've devoted their lives to

283
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:06,839
studying it I've devoted my life to

284
00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:08,940
stunned the topic but it's because I

285
00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:10,260
care about the topic I think it's

286
00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:12,120
important to dismiss a lot of the less

287
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:14,279
credible stuff and try and stick to what

288
00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:16,980
we can actually show or demonstrate

289
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:23,750
now you've had a a long history you said

290
00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:25,620
since you were a child uh being

291
00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:27,420
interested in UFOs did you start off

292
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:28,920
with that skepticism or is that

293
00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:30,060
something you picked up along the way

294
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:32,640
like while researching

295
00:12:39,949 --> 00:12:36,240
um I mean I was not always as skeptical

296
00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:39,959
as I am now when I was younger you know

297
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:43,139
like when I was younger I I still really

298
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,120
hope there is some truth the Babas are

299
00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:48,000
but uh that was just more a wish and a

300
00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:49,019
dream

301
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:51,240
um I've been pretty skeptical for a

302
00:12:55,129 --> 00:12:53,100
large amount of time I say by the time I

303
00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:55,139
at least gotten into Middle School I was

304
00:12:59,449 --> 00:12:56,760
starting to be more skeptical about the

305
00:13:02,930 --> 00:12:59,459
topic and nowadays I kind of approach it

306
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:02,940
not even from uh is this case factual or

307
00:13:08,449 --> 00:13:04,920
true I'm just more concerned with

308
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,459
preserving the historical record and I

309
00:13:13,310 --> 00:13:09,839
like to look at the topic from other

310
00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:13,320
aspects like mythology folklore the

311
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:16,200
sociological religious aspects the

312
00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:18,839
psychology of belief systems there's a

313
00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:20,220
lot of ways to study this topic that

314
00:13:23,210 --> 00:13:21,480
doesn't actually

315
00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:23,220
come down to whether or not something's

316
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:25,980
like a UT or non-human intelligence I

317
00:13:29,329 --> 00:13:27,600
think this topic is fascinating it can

318
00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:29,339
be studied countless ways that don't

319
00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:31,260
come down to a belief system and that's

320
00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:33,180
kind of where I am now with things

321
00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:35,700
yeah you make a good case to uh present

322
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:37,740
the value in studying old cases because

323
00:13:41,569 --> 00:13:39,240
I think I think a lot of people

324
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,579
especially the um people more newer to

325
00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:43,800
the topic don't see the value in looking

326
00:13:50,210 --> 00:13:47,180
into Old cases necessarily

327
00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:50,220
I liked old cases like I kind of feel

328
00:13:53,690 --> 00:13:52,200
the opposite way about new cases like

329
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,700
these days there's so many people

330
00:13:58,670 --> 00:13:56,639
posting random videos photos that could

331
00:14:00,410 --> 00:13:58,680
be damn near anything I kind of feel at

332
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:00,420
least with the old cases

333
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:02,100
if they were documented in all these

334
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,600
Publications at least somebody kind of

335
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:05,279
looked at them and did some research

336
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,800
like with a lot of these new cases like

337
00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:09,600
you know there's just so many of them

338
00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:11,339
you don't know what to do with them but

339
00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:13,260
I'm just kind of I like the olden days

340
00:14:17,329 --> 00:14:15,779
that's just me I wish I was born 20 30

341
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,339
years earlier than I could have been

342
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,720
around back then

343
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,360
what's the most um fascinating aspect to

344
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:23,279
you of ufology like is it the

345
00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:25,800
psychosocial stuff or is it um learning

346
00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:27,480
about how video

347
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:30,180
you know like what Mick West does

348
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,040
um for for a while I was more into

349
00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:37,680
the scientific approach and looking at

350
00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:39,660
things like using instrumented

351
00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:43,139
instruments to try to uh detect UFOs and

352
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:45,000
doing more of the like the analysis that

353
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:48,420
Mick West does I kind of moved beyond

354
00:14:53,569 --> 00:14:51,360
that because after so so many times you

355
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,579
find out that there really just isn't

356
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:56,040
much in these cases for example the the

357
00:15:00,769 --> 00:14:58,380
Nimitz case I had High Hope for that I

358
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,779
attended the the seu conference the

359
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,399
first one read all the reports talked to

360
00:15:07,370 --> 00:15:03,839
the people that were involved in

361
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:07,380
generating the reports and I thought you

362
00:15:11,449 --> 00:15:08,760
know hey maybe we have some real

363
00:15:13,310 --> 00:15:11,459
hardcore science we can do on this again

364
00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:13,320
disappointed I've been just disappointed

365
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:15,180
so many times throughout my time in

366
00:15:20,090 --> 00:15:17,880
ufology that I've kind of given up on

367
00:15:22,189 --> 00:15:20,100
the idea that you know there's there's

368
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:22,199
the hard evidence I'll be glad if it

369
00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:24,600
pops up at some point in time but I've

370
00:15:29,810 --> 00:15:26,820
I've given up hoping on that showing up

371
00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:29,820
and try to just uh study the topics just

372
00:15:33,949 --> 00:15:31,260
from you know that like I said

373
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,959
psychosocial uh why people get involved

374
00:15:38,569 --> 00:15:35,519
with the topic why they believe what

375
00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:38,579
they do and I I'm also just a big

376
00:15:41,689 --> 00:15:40,139
history nut so I think it's important to

377
00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:41,699
preserve the history for future

378
00:15:46,129 --> 00:15:43,560
generations and future researchers to be

379
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:46,139
able to access it and go through it and

380
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,519
I think that's why it's important to get

381
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,199
a lot of it online and digitize because

382
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:51,600
not everybody has the resources to

383
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:54,120
travel around to archives and libraries

384
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:56,279
museums like I and other researchers

385
00:16:02,030 --> 00:15:59,519
have over the years I think it's I think

386
00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:02,040
we need to get all that data saved and

387
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,480
if there's something in there that we

388
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:06,240
can find that's great if not it's still

389
00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:07,620
fascinating like I said for so many

390
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:09,300
different reasons

391
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:11,459
hmm

392
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:14,820
now we have uh I'm sorry go on Leah I

393
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:16,260
was just going to ask if there are any

394
00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:19,500
specific researchers Jeff that you

395
00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:22,940
admire or think are doing the great work

396
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,820
in uh the subject oh yeah I mean I I

397
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:29,519
have some some favorites uh

398
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:32,040
in fact that's uh I mentioned to people

399
00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:33,660
before I kind of got involved with this

400
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:37,320
history group uh via Mike swords and

401
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:40,560
Robert Powell and it's uh kind of some

402
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:43,440
of my heroes in ufology you got people

403
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:47,279
like Barry Greenwood Jan aldrick they'd

404
00:16:51,050 --> 00:16:48,660
been working on things like the kufo

405
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,060
scanning project and they've been

406
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:53,279
working on this topic for longer than

407
00:16:57,230 --> 00:16:55,560
I've been alive I mean they're they're

408
00:16:59,389 --> 00:16:57,240
like Top Notch features in my book Mike

409
00:17:02,030 --> 00:16:59,399
swords of course I I love that guy he's

410
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:02,040
a top-notch researcher

411
00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:05,819
um I like uh Mark rodiger with kufros he

412
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:07,740
has done a lot of work on the more

413
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:10,140
technical scientific side of cases like

414
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,120
his vehicle and fragrance reports that

415
00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:14,880
you guys referenced in the last show

416
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:15,540
um

417
00:17:21,949 --> 00:17:19,559
I like uh uh Vincent the baluster almost

418
00:17:23,929 --> 00:17:21,959
uh he's he's fantastic I think he's one

419
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,939
of the best ufologists in the world to

420
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:25,919
be honest and he has been since the 70s

421
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,380
what's I'm sorry what's his name uh okay

422
00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:31,440
it's like it's it's baluster almost

423
00:17:40,730 --> 00:17:36,669
ome

424
00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:40,740
yeah Vincent Wanda yeah yeah yeah Louise

425
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,600
he's uh the individual that reached out

426
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:44,640
to to reference something from our our

427
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:46,260
website fairly recently I think right

428
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,240
yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah he does that

429
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:51,120
he does the both the photo cap project

430
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:54,240
um and he did that catalog for coupons I

431
00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:56,760
tweeted yesterday or the day before of

432
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,700
Spain and Portugal cases

433
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:01,980
um he's he's written some really good

434
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:05,039
papers on the evidentiary aspects of

435
00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:07,200
ufology uh he did one with Thomas

436
00:18:12,169 --> 00:18:09,480
Billard that was two views of evidence

437
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,179
of UFO evidence and Ballard presented

438
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,640
one View and he presented another

439
00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:16,559
um he's just done a lot of really good

440
00:18:21,289 --> 00:18:19,500
work that is at the academic level at

441
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:21,299
the science level when it comes to

442
00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:22,559
ufology

443
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:30,409
um besides of that I mean I also like

444
00:18:33,710 --> 00:18:32,580
people like uh like Fran Ridge with

445
00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:33,720
nightcap

446
00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:37,140
um Donald Johnson I've used a lot of his

447
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:39,480
work in my Daily Post

448
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:41,400
um he had written one of those vehicle

449
00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:42,960
interference papers for the original

450
00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:47,580
kufos conference in 1976 I believe

451
00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,500
um he's been around a long time

452
00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:51,900
uh there's a lot of these old guys that

453
00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:53,900
have been in the field forever and

454
00:18:59,150 --> 00:18:56,460
they're kind of uh they're they're the

455
00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:59,160
people I look up to in this field uh and

456
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:01,500
of course we all know Isaac I think the

457
00:19:06,169 --> 00:19:02,940
work he's done with digital preservation

458
00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:06,179
is absolutely phenomenal like that guy's

459
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:07,980
just amazing I love that guy

460
00:19:12,049 --> 00:19:09,900
but uh

461
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:12,059
yeah those are just uh some other some

462
00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:13,860
of the people I like a lot of the more

463
00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:16,020
modern people

464
00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:17,880
not so much even a lot of the more

465
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:20,760
famous people like Richard Dolan not so

466
00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:22,679
much to be honest

467
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,700
um

468
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:25,679
but do you know what happens with Ellen

469
00:19:30,529 --> 00:19:26,820
Henry

470
00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:30,539
happened to him well like he sort of

471
00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:32,340
dropped out at some point he never

472
00:19:36,110 --> 00:19:34,140
returned to ufology but I don't know if

473
00:19:39,169 --> 00:19:36,120
anyone ever spoke to him again about

474
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:39,179
that you know I'm I'm not sure if if

475
00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:41,460
people don't know Alan Henry was with

476
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,260
kufos he was kind of like their lead

477
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:45,360
investigator if you look at old

478
00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:47,520
International UFO report magazines or

479
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:48,660
journals or whatever you want to call

480
00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:49,679
them

481
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:51,000
um that would have different cases in

482
00:19:54,650 --> 00:19:52,799
them he was the kind of guy that would

483
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,660
head up the investigation or at least

484
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,880
delegate it if you look at old kufo's

485
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,559
like citing report forms like his name

486
00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:00,480
would be on the top of it and he wrote a

487
00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:03,960
really good book on myself over there on

488
00:20:07,370 --> 00:20:05,940
UFO investigations as kind of one of the

489
00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:07,380
best books out there for if you can

490
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,179
investigate a UFO sighting

491
00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:11,760
but as to what ended up happening to him

492
00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:16,549
and we talked a

493
00:20:22,570 --> 00:20:18,780
I found this show about observation

494
00:20:26,029 --> 00:20:22,580
versus interpretation in the sciences

495
00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:26,039
and I'm curious for you Jeff what kind

496
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:30,120
of observational evidence first Drew

497
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:33,900
your attention to the subject and why

498
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,320
did that kind of evidence reduce in

499
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,559
value to you over time in proportion to

500
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:42,480
your uh shift to a more skeptical

501
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:43,500
Outlook

502
00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:46,860
well so

503
00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:50,820
when I was you know really studying this

504
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:53,100
topic reading a lot of books and you

505
00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:54,780
would see you know all these claims

506
00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:57,419
things like radar data radar visual

507
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,900
cases trace evidence cases and it seemed

508
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,400
to me initially like hey there might be

509
00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:04,080
some real good hard scientific evidence

510
00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:05,940
here that we can actually dig into and

511
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:08,520
maybe prove something with but the more

512
00:21:13,010 --> 00:21:11,520
again you dig into that that data

513
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:13,020
um like I was talking to somebody about

514
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:16,440
alleged UFO debris like ttsa samples and

515
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:18,240
whatnot when you actually look at the

516
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,919
analysis of that data it's not really

517
00:21:24,169 --> 00:21:21,840
that unusual a lot of the samples are

518
00:21:26,270 --> 00:21:24,179
totally prosaic objects like the

519
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,280
Bobwhite object is this the stalagmite

520
00:21:30,110 --> 00:21:28,080
from a metal grinding wheel I used to

521
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:30,120
have one that looked identical

522
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:33,000
um to that uh the the arts belt the Arts

523
00:21:39,649 --> 00:21:36,600
Parts project uh is a piece is just uh

524
00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:39,659
it's a nice Industrial Waste you know

525
00:21:45,470 --> 00:21:42,120
from the better Control process

526
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:45,480
um and a and a piece of a radiator sheet

527
00:21:49,850 --> 00:21:47,460
um so it's like the more you actually

528
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,860
dig into what's supposed to be the the

529
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:51,360
physical evidence the hard evidence

530
00:21:54,409 --> 00:21:52,740
people talk about

531
00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:54,419
the more you realize it just doesn't

532
00:21:59,930 --> 00:21:57,059
really stand up to scrutiny it's just

533
00:22:02,870 --> 00:21:59,940
not that good of evidence and and then

534
00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:02,880
you look at things like videos and some

535
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,340
of them look interesting and you know I

536
00:22:10,190 --> 00:22:07,200
spent a lot of time I imagine traveling

537
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:10,200
around the country I mean tens of

538
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:13,679
thousands of I do probably maybe 5 000

539
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,020
miles a month like 12 months a year for

540
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,240
like six years and a lot of that would

541
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,640
be at night right and so I'd see a lot

542
00:22:24,649 --> 00:22:22,799
of crazy things in the sky that even

543
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,659
after even a skeptical person like me

544
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:26,640
would kind of trip me up but what I

545
00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:28,380
would do is I would stop driving and try

546
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,260
and track down what I was seeing and

547
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,600
through various things like low light

548
00:22:37,549 --> 00:22:35,760
like my Sony camera is really good at

549
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:37,559
taking low-light pictures stuff that

550
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:39,000
looks like it's floating around the sky

551
00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:41,220
sometimes it's actually on a hill that

552
00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:43,320
you can't see you know in the distance

553
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,440
and it's not actually in the sky at all

554
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:48,720
um and after years of just literally

555
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:50,400
chasing down like once I was driving

556
00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:52,440
through this like rural area and I

557
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,940
thought this this thing was following me

558
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:55,200
through a field like I thought it was

559
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:56,460
falling right along with me right

560
00:23:00,770 --> 00:22:58,080
standard kind of Parallax kind of

561
00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:00,780
situation I I drove around that rural

562
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:02,100
area for three hours trying to track

563
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:04,020
down that light only to find out it was

564
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:05,820
like this rural branch light that was

565
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:07,380
glitching and it would like one would

566
00:23:10,610 --> 00:23:09,480
turn on the other would turn off and

567
00:23:12,049 --> 00:23:10,620
like they would just like look like they

568
00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:12,059
were bouncing around and then following

569
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,980
me around but it was just glitchy like

570
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:16,320
rural Branch lights you know

571
00:23:20,990 --> 00:23:17,240
um

572
00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:21,000
51 I spent a lot of time at area 51.

573
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:22,919
they've got these Ranch lights there

574
00:23:27,409 --> 00:23:25,679
that look identical to what Bob bizarre

575
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,419
explains where it looks like it's a

576
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:30,240
stepping motion uh and it's jumping in

577
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:31,919
the sky like that it's these really

578
00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:34,140
glitchy like Ranch like they have near

579
00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:37,080
the mountain uh that's like on the the

580
00:23:41,570 --> 00:23:39,000
BLM side of the land before you get to

581
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:41,580
like to the base and that still chips me

582
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:43,020
up every time I drive by and I'm like

583
00:23:47,149 --> 00:23:44,520
whoa what is that I'm like oh no wait

584
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:47,159
that's those Ranch lights again and it's

585
00:23:50,029 --> 00:23:48,840
just the more I looked into all these

586
00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:50,039
different types of avenues people

587
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:53,640
present the more I just was unimpressed

588
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:55,559
and uh

589
00:24:00,250 --> 00:23:57,600
yeah kind of started to doubt we'd never

590
00:24:03,289 --> 00:24:00,260
start to see real good at this

591
00:24:04,909 --> 00:24:03,299
kind of brings us into your research

592
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:04,919
method right do you want to go through

593
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:06,600
that with us I know you have slides I

594
00:24:10,669 --> 00:24:09,179
think we can get those to work I'll play

595
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:10,679
I'll play Vanna White here let me get

596
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:12,559
the slides up

597
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:16,980
all right I'll just kind of explain uh

598
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,020
what I kind of go through at least on a

599
00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:20,640
daily basis this is some of the stuff I

600
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:22,740
use every single day when I'm working on

601
00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:25,140
my history post

602
00:24:28,970 --> 00:24:27,179
um first I kind of got to come up with

603
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:28,980
the various cases when I first started

604
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,960
getting going it was a lot more drawn

605
00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:33,120
out process I literally spent hours

606
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:35,880
going through the the night nightcapa

607
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:38,520
Kronos listings for to find dates that

608
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:40,260
match today

609
00:24:44,529 --> 00:24:41,880
um I would also use things like uh

610
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:44,539
Donald Johnson had this on

611
00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:46,380
extraterrestrials on this day or

612
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:47,820
something site that doesn't exist

613
00:24:52,029 --> 00:24:50,159
anymore but that I used to weigh back

614
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:52,039
try to find cases

615
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:56,100
but more recently I started using a I

616
00:25:00,110 --> 00:24:57,780
used more than just this but George

617
00:25:02,990 --> 00:25:00,120
eberhart's UFO and intelligence timeline

618
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,000
that's kind of slide four if you wanna

619
00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:05,760
and move it over to there kind of skip

620
00:25:12,169 --> 00:25:08,580
yeah yeah

621
00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:12,179
because it's uh it's a phenomenal like

622
00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:13,620
resource that George's but you got

623
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:15,419
George is another kind of hero of mine

624
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:19,080
he's kind of uh uh like I kind of wish

625
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,480
again I could have been him he's like a

626
00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:24,000
bibliographer and a librarian and that's

627
00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:25,620
kind of what I feel like I am a lot of

628
00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:28,020
the time I this is the kind of stuff

629
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:29,700
that makes my heart beat a little faster

630
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:32,760
to see a big two-volume bibliography on

631
00:25:38,269 --> 00:25:35,039
This Isn't that cool that's not the only

632
00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:38,279
one either I believe in the Discord we

633
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,380
dumped just a whole bunch of uh

634
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,240
resources like that last week of

635
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:44,159
different bibliographies of UFO

636
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:47,159
Publications and material but George has

637
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:49,140
gone through literally hundreds of books

638
00:25:55,549 --> 00:25:52,320
and resources pulling the dates of cases

639
00:25:57,529 --> 00:25:55,559
out and created this massive you know

640
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:57,539
it's some like 900 Pages or something

641
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:00,840
long listing of cases by year and date

642
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:04,559
that even has links to various resources

643
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:05,940
and that's kind of where I'll start off

644
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:07,260
with

645
00:26:12,669 --> 00:26:11,760
then I'll go dig through some of my

646
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:12,679
other

647
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,419
places if you want to kind of go back to

648
00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:17,520
just slide one

649
00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:19,020
um

650
00:26:25,490 --> 00:26:22,140
I I regularly use the UFO encyclopedia

651
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:25,500
for my cases the UFO evidence both

652
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:29,039
that's volume two and volume one the

653
00:26:33,409 --> 00:26:30,600
original one that came out

654
00:26:35,330 --> 00:26:33,419
that's the UFOs and government is the

655
00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:35,340
book that is produced by the history

656
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,340
group that meets up with Mike swords

657
00:26:43,549 --> 00:26:40,799
that I got involved with a few years ago

658
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:43,559
that was their first publication and I

659
00:26:47,289 --> 00:26:45,480
use that on a fairly regular basis

660
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:47,299
probably almost every day

661
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:49,440
they've got a new one that's finished

662
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,900
that I've been proofreading I don't know

663
00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:53,279
when that's going to come out but you

664
00:26:57,769 --> 00:26:55,620
guys all got a lot of that uh you want

665
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:57,779
to go slide two

666
00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:00,179
again I that's the first volume of UFO

667
00:27:04,909 --> 00:27:02,760
evidence I use that again on an almost

668
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:04,919
daily basis

669
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,500
um condon's report comes up quite a bit

670
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:10,080
and so I use that regularly

671
00:27:12,830 --> 00:27:11,880
um everyone bashes on content but the

672
00:27:15,529 --> 00:27:12,840
thing you got to understand about the

673
00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:15,539
content report is it's just just ignore

674
00:27:21,169 --> 00:27:18,500
the part Condon wrote his summary

675
00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:21,179
the rest of it is actually full of some

676
00:27:26,990 --> 00:27:24,120
pretty good case information and actual

677
00:27:28,610 --> 00:27:27,000
data like you just you can't throw out

678
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:28,620
the whole thing just because Condon was

679
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:31,919
an idiot uh and then I use a lot of

680
00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:34,620
nightcap special reports uh like there's

681
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,080
strange effects from UFOs report uh

682
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:39,840
their uh UFO is a new look was kind of

683
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:41,880
like a document kind of like the UFO

684
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:45,360
evidence book that they did beforehand

685
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:47,340
um that that is something I'm actually

686
00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:50,400
using on a case for tomorrow I'm gonna

687
00:27:54,430 --> 00:27:52,440
go to the next page

688
00:27:57,289 --> 00:27:54,440
uh then there's some just good

689
00:28:00,409 --> 00:27:57,299
encyclopedias that I also use on top of

690
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:00,419
Jerome Clark's UFO encyclopedia Ronald's

691
00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:04,020
story did one Margaret Sachs did one

692
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:06,860
uh those other documents again are uh

693
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,179
cases that involve electromagnetic

694
00:28:12,769 --> 00:28:11,279
interference or vehicle interference

695
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:12,779
cases

696
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:15,720
um come up a lot in my post and some of

697
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:18,240
the the documents that include those is

698
00:28:23,210 --> 00:28:20,460
like a show picks a study a secondary

699
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:23,220
effects and nightcap also did an early

700
00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:26,220
report uh on electromedic effects

701
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:28,380
associated with UFOs

702
00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:34,070
actually you want to skip ahead to

703
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:35,640
number five because we already did

704
00:28:39,649 --> 00:28:37,140
number four

705
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,659
um and another resource I use on a daily

706
00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:42,000
basis is basically the center for UFO

707
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,340
studies website it's a phenomenal

708
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:47,279
resource it's kind of an old primitive

709
00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:49,080
looking website in fact all these UFO

710
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:51,480
groups these old this looks very like

711
00:28:57,529 --> 00:28:55,039
1998 geocities yep we need like a

712
00:29:00,289 --> 00:28:57,539
construction.jif I'm not sure it's been

713
00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:00,299
updated on that often since then but uh

714
00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:02,340
they've got a lot of great stuff on

715
00:29:06,289 --> 00:29:04,200
there if you go like on the left side

716
00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:06,299
they've got early UFO periodic calls you

717
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:08,039
can find things like nightcaps UFO

718
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,260
investigator and a lot of other

719
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:13,200
Publications by early UFO groups they've

720
00:29:17,330 --> 00:29:15,120
also got some by their International UFO

721
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:17,340
reporter articles on there and you can

722
00:29:21,529 --> 00:29:19,380
find most of the the books and

723
00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,539
monographs that kufos has put out over

724
00:29:27,169 --> 00:29:24,299
the years on their website as well like

725
00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:27,179
we mentioned Vincent Juan Boston's uh

726
00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:30,360
catalog of Spain and Portugal cases that

727
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:32,220
I posted a picture of my physical copy

728
00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:34,620
of yesterday you can find that PDF on

729
00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:37,140
here and I posted a link to it so I'll

730
00:29:42,409 --> 00:29:39,419
use the first website a lot if I'm

731
00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:42,419
looking for old bulletins or newsletters

732
00:29:46,490 --> 00:29:44,940
or journals that I need to pull

733
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:46,500
references out of

734
00:29:50,289 --> 00:29:48,539
and that's the same thing goes for the

735
00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:50,299
next slide there

736
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:54,179
the nycap website of course uh they've

737
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:56,220
got their chronology listing up there is

738
00:30:01,850 --> 00:29:59,520
just kind of uh the 1965 one but the the

739
00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:01,860
page before that you can just select by

740
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,679
year and they they list cases through

741
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,840
the year if it's a blue book case a lot

742
00:30:09,710 --> 00:30:07,919
of times you can look at the Blue Book

743
00:30:12,289 --> 00:30:09,720
files there

744
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:12,299
um and it's just a phenomenal resource

745
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,940
that people should be using nightcap

746
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:16,860
also maintains most of keho's books you

747
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:18,600
can go and look at there for free both

748
00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:21,779
in PDF or in web formats a lot of their

749
00:30:25,970 --> 00:30:23,700
uh reports that nycaps put out you can

750
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:25,980
get off the website

751
00:30:31,630 --> 00:30:29,340
um and again Fran Ridge has helped a lot

752
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:31,640
with that website he believes he runs it

753
00:30:37,549 --> 00:30:35,279
and it's uh it's a great resource that I

754
00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:37,559
use and link to every single day as

755
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:40,440
people who watch my post probably notice

756
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,600
um these websites are killing me they

757
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:44,399
remind me of like my early days on the

758
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,860
internet on dialope oh I know that's

759
00:30:51,409 --> 00:30:48,320
incredible

760
00:30:55,730 --> 00:30:51,419
nycaps web page is kind of particularly

761
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,740
a disaster but uh you can still find the

762
00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:57,600
stuff if you look

763
00:31:03,350 --> 00:30:58,440
um

764
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:03,360
noticed you said that you got involved

765
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:05,820
with uh Michael swords history project

766
00:31:12,889 --> 00:31:08,640
how did you get involved with that and

767
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:17,029
he's awesome he's he's a great uh some

768
00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:19,919
of these guys you know I'm I'm by far

769
00:31:27,289 --> 00:31:22,500
the youngest person in this like this

770
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,299
this group and uh sometimes my humor

771
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:29,279
doesn't always match with their humor

772
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:34,610
I misunderstand older people humor I

773
00:31:39,889 --> 00:31:37,620
don't know what it is but uh uh no my

774
00:31:42,769 --> 00:31:39,899
mic is one of the most kindest generous

775
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:42,779
like people I think I've met in this

776
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:46,320
field I basically I got involved uh I

777
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:47,340
had like I'd mentioned I've been

778
00:31:51,130 --> 00:31:49,260
interested in digitizing and preserving

779
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:51,140
And archiving information

780
00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:54,960
and I had stumbled across Mike sword's

781
00:31:59,870 --> 00:31:57,960
uh blog you know several years ago and

782
00:32:02,510 --> 00:31:59,880
it was great and he had mentioned

783
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:02,520
something called the history group and I

784
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:04,260
heard the history group be mentioned in

785
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:05,940
regards to this UFOs and government's

786
00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:08,399
book and I was like what is this history

787
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:09,960
group and how do I get part of this

788
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:12,840
history group right and so I I got in

789
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,559
contact with him and uh uh talk to him

790
00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:18,720
for a bit they kind of felt me out I

791
00:32:21,649 --> 00:32:19,860
actually had to go through these

792
00:32:24,529 --> 00:32:21,659
telephone interviews with Robert Powell

793
00:32:27,169 --> 00:32:24,539
and Mike and I just kind of got him

794
00:32:31,370 --> 00:32:27,179
invited into the group and it's just a

795
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:31,380
group of uh veteran researchers uh that

796
00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:32,940
we have a mailing list we communicate

797
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:35,580
throughout the year there's meetups at

798
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:38,159
uh his house you know once or twice a

799
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:39,779
year

800
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:41,700
um we're discussed the various work

801
00:32:45,950 --> 00:32:43,740
we're doing the different scanning

802
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:45,960
projects the different historical work

803
00:32:53,630 --> 00:32:52,020
uh the the new book uh it's uh uh like I

804
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:53,640
say you got people like Robert Powell

805
00:32:59,810 --> 00:32:56,880
Jan aldrick Barry uh Greenwood Phyllis

806
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,820
bubinger like was there Don Ledger Don

807
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,679
Schmidt

808
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,419
um Richard theme he's the guy that would

809
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,039
give the UFO talks with the Defcon

810
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:08,159
hacker conference oh cool awesome uh

811
00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:10,559
Mark O'Connell he wrote the biography on

812
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:14,940
John heineck Mark is amazing nice guy uh

813
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:18,600
Richard Noll he's a young Ian expert he

814
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:21,299
wrote the book The Cult of young and as

815
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,960
an expert on Shamanism and uh he

816
00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:27,120
actually wait who's who who's the

817
00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:30,600
jungian shaman guy Victor Noel

818
00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:33,240
he's at DeSales University Richard null

819
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:36,419
uh yeah he studied uh Shamanism tribes

820
00:33:41,570 --> 00:33:39,840
in like Korea and Siberia and others in

821
00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:41,580
Asia he's got a great YouTube channel

822
00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:43,019
where you can actually watch these

823
00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:44,760
rituals and ceremonies being done that

824
00:33:50,210 --> 00:33:46,860
he's filmed uh

825
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:50,220
but he's also an expert on uh basically

826
00:33:55,730 --> 00:33:53,940
the the history of dementia precoxia uh

827
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:55,740
just kind of like I take it an early

828
00:34:00,110 --> 00:33:57,720
name for schizophrenia or something he

829
00:34:03,889 --> 00:34:00,120
wrote some books and papers on that

830
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:03,899
um but he's a really great guy uh and

831
00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:05,820
there's just a lot of a lot of people

832
00:34:11,629 --> 00:34:08,040
that uh if you were involved with

833
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,639
ufology back in the 60s and 70s like you

834
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,399
might recognize their names but these

835
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,040
days you might not but these are the

836
00:34:22,849 --> 00:34:19,440
original kind of I consider them the ogs

837
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,859
of the field that I'm privileged and

838
00:34:27,649 --> 00:34:24,480
feel very privileged that I've gotten to

839
00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:27,659
know and be involved with and it's also

840
00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:29,220
given me access to quite a bit of

841
00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:30,540
material that

842
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,520
other people wouldn't have access to

843
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,320
that's helped a lot with the cases and

844
00:34:38,089 --> 00:34:36,480
the posts that I do sometimes if you

845
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:38,099
notice in some of my posts they'll be

846
00:34:42,530 --> 00:34:40,260
handwriting That's Mike swords

847
00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,540
handwriting written on pages because

848
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:44,280
that information came from one of his

849
00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:46,859
case files he has pretty distinct

850
00:34:49,609 --> 00:34:48,419
handwriting uh he was one of the first

851
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:49,619
people I reached out to when I was

852
00:34:52,490 --> 00:34:51,119
looking into the Lake Michigan case

853
00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:52,500
because I knew you'd covered it on his

854
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,320
blog and he is he actually was the one

855
00:35:00,170 --> 00:34:57,359
that originally Drew out a lot of the

856
00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:00,180
radar trackings and speed measures and

857
00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:03,240
whatnot on the the Michigan case yep and

858
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:05,820
uh his house is uh

859
00:35:13,550 --> 00:35:09,119
in fact if you want to just um

860
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:14,750
uh

861
00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:22,320
it's yeah it's I mean it's one of the

862
00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:27,000
best archives probably in the US it uh

863
00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:28,680
it's not only just stuff he's collected

864
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:31,560
he holds Ivan sanderson's Ivan Sanderson

865
00:35:35,930 --> 00:35:34,079
had an organization called situ essay

866
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,940
s-i-t-u

867
00:35:39,290 --> 00:35:37,920
um he holds the archives from Ivan

868
00:35:41,150 --> 00:35:39,300
Sanderson there

869
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:41,160
um he used to hold a lot of kufos

870
00:35:45,530 --> 00:35:43,260
material there some of that may have

871
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:45,540
been moved to David marlers in the last

872
00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:49,260
year or two I'm not 100 sure but if you

873
00:35:53,690 --> 00:35:51,420
watch TV shows like UFO witness of Ben

874
00:35:56,930 --> 00:35:53,700
Hansen when they show him going to the

875
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:56,940
kufos archives that's Mike's house in

876
00:36:01,849 --> 00:35:59,760
fact he's photos I couldn't find my

877
00:36:04,130 --> 00:36:01,859
photos quickly these are screen caps

878
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:04,140
from Ben Hansen visiting uh Mike sword's

879
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:07,680
house so uh but I've spent quite a bit

880
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:09,780
of time on that table there scanning

881
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,400
thousands and thousands of pages of

882
00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:14,160
documents you know with my scanner uh

883
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:16,440
because it's just it's an amazing

884
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:19,940
resource uh it's absolutely phenomenal

885
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,460
a lot of those miles those folders have

886
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,500
have been scanned and digitized and like

887
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:27,359
I have a copy of them on a solid state

888
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,300
drive and we have a history group we

889
00:36:36,349 --> 00:36:33,000
have a Google Drive that we we use if

890
00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:36,359
like you go to the next slide uh

891
00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:38,280
we've I've got access to this great

892
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,579
Google Drive that not only do I have a

893
00:36:44,050 --> 00:36:42,960
car dude you're just showing all the

894
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,060
goods tonight

895
00:36:50,270 --> 00:36:47,520
yeah yeah you know that we've got people

896
00:36:52,609 --> 00:36:50,280
like Keith basterfield you know uh

897
00:36:54,589 --> 00:36:52,619
Robert Powell uh I got a lot of this

898
00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:54,599
stuff on a solid state but we've got

899
00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:56,760
this uploading directory we've just we

900
00:37:00,349 --> 00:36:58,200
upload the new material that we're

901
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,359
working on so we can share it amongst

902
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:02,880
the people in our group and I get a lot

903
00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:05,460
of my material through uh our little

904
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,339
private drive here that again I I feel

905
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,320
very honored to be able to have

906
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:13,200
have access to uh

907
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,300
but uh sometimes when I'm searching for

908
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:17,280
a case uh when I try to find more

909
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,640
references I'll just pop in a date or

910
00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:23,040
details in the search there and come up

911
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:25,980
with stuff and it just pops up

912
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:29,339
um but this is uh it's it's amazing to

913
00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:31,320
have digital access to a lot of the

914
00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:33,000
stuff that Mike swords has at his house

915
00:37:37,849 --> 00:37:35,220
I've actually scanned a bunch of stuff

916
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,859
of his personal files that weren't done

917
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:39,660
when this stuff was originally scanned

918
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,540
back you know how many years ago

919
00:37:47,630 --> 00:37:44,880
that I'm still trying to uh

920
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,640
organize and put together it's kind of

921
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:49,200
hard going through other people's UFO

922
00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:51,300
files you know if like if you ever

923
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:52,920
looked at Stanton Friedman's office

924
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:55,260
before he died like some people viewed

925
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,820
profiles are kind of like a disaster

926
00:38:00,890 --> 00:37:59,280
zone right and so like a lot of stuff I

927
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,900
scanned when I was there was just like

928
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:02,880
like loose sheets that weren't even in

929
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:05,520
the folders with the cases like like you

930
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:07,020
know this is like two and a half years

931
00:38:10,370 --> 00:38:08,400
later I'm still trying to figure out

932
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,380
where to sort this stuff and like how to

933
00:38:14,690 --> 00:38:13,200
organize it into like case files and I

934
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:14,700
still don't quite and sometimes I talked

935
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:16,500
to Isaac about yesterday I still don't

936
00:38:22,609 --> 00:38:19,200
quite understand Mike's category system

937
00:38:24,109 --> 00:38:22,619
and how he names and does his files

938
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:24,119
after all these years

939
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:26,700
but but that being said it's been a

940
00:38:31,490 --> 00:38:28,200
phenomenal resource to be able to use

941
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,500
this uh this drive of ours to pull files

942
00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:34,079
off of that uh a lot of people don't

943
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:36,260
have access to if I'm sharing something

944
00:38:41,630 --> 00:38:39,720
uh on Twitter a document that people

945
00:38:43,730 --> 00:38:41,640
haven't seen there's a good chance it

946
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:43,740
came from there and you can probably

947
00:38:46,609 --> 00:38:45,300
credit those guys more than you can

948
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,619
credit me

949
00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:49,200
well Jeff the amount of information that

950
00:38:54,829 --> 00:38:51,720
you have gone over and have access to

951
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,839
generally is remarkable and it's kind of

952
00:38:58,490 --> 00:38:56,880
interesting because like we all are

953
00:39:00,589 --> 00:38:58,500
interested in this subject we think

954
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:00,599
there's something neat happening but

955
00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:03,660
it's a strange thing when the more

956
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:07,619
information you get Hands-On the like

957
00:39:13,849 --> 00:39:10,500
less convinced you are of the underlying

958
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:13,859
premise of the subject could could you

959
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:17,040
speak on what if there was a moment

960
00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:21,240
where you sort of turn like became it

961
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,500
sort of got to a point where you were

962
00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:24,720
like okay this is uh gonna change my

963
00:39:29,630 --> 00:39:26,940
perspective on this or it was a very

964
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:29,640
gradual process

965
00:39:33,410 --> 00:39:31,560
um I'm not sure there's really a moment

966
00:39:36,530 --> 00:39:33,420
it

967
00:39:37,849 --> 00:39:36,540
probably kind of like more gradual

968
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,859
you know I'm

969
00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:39,839
it's uh

970
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:42,660
you can look at the same material you

971
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:44,520
know 10 years ago look at it five years

972
00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:46,500
later and look at it now and Come Away

973
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:48,420
with completely different opinions on it

974
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:49,440
and

975
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:51,960
maybe I thought differently back then

976
00:39:56,990 --> 00:39:54,839
but uh I think I've always been pretty

977
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:57,000
skeptical but I still think there's

978
00:40:01,010 --> 00:39:58,440
something to this topic and I still

979
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,020
think it's worth studying and I'm still

980
00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:03,599
completely open to the possibility that

981
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,119
there's something anomalous going on

982
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,359
that it's even non-human intelligence or

983
00:40:13,970 --> 00:40:11,280
alien or ET or

984
00:40:16,130 --> 00:40:13,980
Atlantean crypto terrestrial or whatever

985
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,140
you want to call these various entities

986
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:19,200
uh I'm open to that I'm just agnostic as

987
00:40:24,829 --> 00:40:21,480
to what the Ultimate Reality of what's

988
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:24,839
going on is if there even is you know

989
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,680
one or if if we even find it out ever

990
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,240
and I think it's probably more likely

991
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,920
just a whole bunch of different things

992
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,079
that you know are getting bunched

993
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:36,839
together in this field we call ufology

994
00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:39,780
agreed

995
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,820
now what do you find most inspiring uh

996
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:43,920
what inspires you most doing this work

997
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:47,099
is it uh sort of the the recording of

998
00:40:50,270 --> 00:40:49,140
what you think will be one day resolved

999
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:50,280
or do you think it will sort of

1000
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:52,079
perpetuate in this way forever because

1001
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:56,640
it's an elusive subject uh Focus uh the

1002
00:41:00,589 --> 00:40:57,720
thing that we're trying to observe is

1003
00:41:05,930 --> 00:41:00,599
very elusive uh what's the ultimate uh

1004
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:08,089
because I'm a sucker for pain I don't

1005
00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:10,500
know because

1006
00:41:14,349 --> 00:41:12,420
nobody gets into this because they're

1007
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:14,359
happy yeah

1008
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:17,220
well I'm just uh when I get into

1009
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:19,140
something I kind of really get into

1010
00:41:23,930 --> 00:41:21,540
something whatever it may be like I'd

1011
00:41:26,089 --> 00:41:23,940
never do anything kind of halfway and so

1012
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:26,099
when I got into apology I really got

1013
00:41:31,849 --> 00:41:28,680
into ethology I was studying it

1014
00:41:34,250 --> 00:41:31,859
collecting everything I could I mean

1015
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:34,260
even peripherally related I mean not

1016
00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:35,640
only do I have a massive collection of

1017
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:39,000
old UFO related Comics documents you

1018
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:42,960
know magazines journals books uh I have

1019
00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:44,820
a massive UFO collectible collection

1020
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:47,339
that I've spent far more money than I'll

1021
00:41:52,270 --> 00:41:50,040
ever admit to acquiring do you have Mars

1022
00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:52,280
Attacks action figures you can tell us

1023
00:41:59,870 --> 00:41:56,280
uh no but I do have some of the original

1024
00:42:01,310 --> 00:41:59,880
Tops baseball cards of course you do can

1025
00:42:02,329 --> 00:42:01,320
you can you scan those and share those

1026
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:02,339
please

1027
00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:03,599
um

1028
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,160
I've even got the close encounter

1029
00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:08,480
baseball cards from back in the day nice

1030
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:10,380
collected quite quite a bit of stuff

1031
00:42:15,530 --> 00:42:13,560
over the years but uh what keeps driving

1032
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:15,540
me you know like say I don't think

1033
00:42:20,810 --> 00:42:17,880
there'll ever be one answer like

1034
00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:20,820
I I I would like one day if we ever did

1035
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:22,680
find out that maybe there is extra

1036
00:42:27,710 --> 00:42:24,540
special vegetation like that would be

1037
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:27,720
amazing to me uh will we ever find that

1038
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,260
out I don't know I hope we do but I

1039
00:42:35,089 --> 00:42:33,119
think there will always be the mystery I

1040
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:35,099
mean by the very nature what a UFO is

1041
00:42:38,930 --> 00:42:37,140
it's like it's unidentified like once it

1042
00:42:41,150 --> 00:42:38,940
becomes identified it's no longer UFO

1043
00:42:43,490 --> 00:42:41,160
and so hey there will always be things

1044
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:43,500
people are seeing in this guy picking up

1045
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,839
on instruments whatever that aren't

1046
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:47,520
going to be able to be identified for

1047
00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:49,260
whatever reason whether it's in the low

1048
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:50,579
information Zone we just don't have

1049
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,200
enough data

1050
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,599
um whether it's like an illusion you

1051
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,160
know they'll always believe in like

1052
00:43:01,550 --> 00:42:58,560
entities yeah balloon-like entities you

1053
00:43:03,950 --> 00:43:01,560
know whatever uh they'll always be cases

1054
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:03,960
and Mysteries I don't think you can ever

1055
00:43:08,569 --> 00:43:06,060
say there'll be an answer to everything

1056
00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:08,579
because again that kind of assumes there

1057
00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:10,260
is a one thing for there to be an answer

1058
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:11,720
too

1059
00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:14,880
are are there any cases that you keep

1060
00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:16,740
coming back to or they're that

1061
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:19,800
particularly captivating you

1062
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:21,780
um you know I I get a I get asked a lot

1063
00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:25,680
like what I think are the best cases and

1064
00:43:30,589 --> 00:43:28,260
like I tell people I don't think there

1065
00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:30,599
is best cases I mean there's certainly

1066
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:32,460
interesting cases this cases that I find

1067
00:43:37,069 --> 00:43:35,220
interesting that I keep coming back I'm

1068
00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:37,079
interested in but like I don't think

1069
00:43:41,089 --> 00:43:39,060
about best proof but I mean ones that

1070
00:43:44,329 --> 00:43:41,099
you particularly find compelling or

1071
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,339
interesting well there's interesting and

1072
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:46,800
there's compelling like I find the Bob

1073
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:49,920
Lazar case interesting it's a bunch of

1074
00:43:54,290 --> 00:43:52,560
BS to be honest but I find it very

1075
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,300
interesting and have wasted a large

1076
00:43:58,970 --> 00:43:56,400
amount of my life then I spent two years

1077
00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:58,980
almost full time studying the balbazar

1078
00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:01,140
case traveling around pulling court

1079
00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:03,540
records from the legal system talking to

1080
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:05,160
his employees visiting his business

1081
00:44:10,190 --> 00:44:07,440
visit talking to his old co-workers from

1082
00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:10,200
like Los Alamos I I literally spent two

1083
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:12,599
years pretty much all year long

1084
00:44:19,069 --> 00:44:16,079
investigating Lazar and uh

1085
00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:19,079
and that was even after I knew he was

1086
00:44:24,109 --> 00:44:21,480
just full of crap you know don't ask me

1087
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:24,119
why I did it but I guess why I did it

1088
00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:25,740
was because I think

1089
00:44:29,809 --> 00:44:28,020
balboazar is an example of a case that a

1090
00:44:31,069 --> 00:44:29,819
lot of people get exposed to and that's

1091
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:31,079
kind of what brings people into this

1092
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:33,599
topic like I think when you have people

1093
00:44:37,309 --> 00:44:35,160
like Korbel make a documentary about

1094
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,319
Lazar that brought a lot of people under

1095
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:39,359
this topic and a lot of interest in the

1096
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:41,160
topic and I think it's unfortunate that

1097
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:42,960
that's the case because they're being

1098
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:45,839
brought in with just garbage like with

1099
00:44:50,510 --> 00:44:48,780
junk and I naively assume that maybe I

1100
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:50,520
could put an end at the Lazar case you

1101
00:44:54,109 --> 00:44:52,319
know that I could find The Smoking Gun

1102
00:44:58,190 --> 00:44:54,119
that finally puts an end of the Lazar

1103
00:44:59,569 --> 00:44:58,200
story and that was just dump because no

1104
00:45:03,050 --> 00:44:59,579
amount of evidence is going to convince

1105
00:45:05,329 --> 00:45:03,060
our balazar Believers that you know he's

1106
00:45:07,370 --> 00:45:05,339
didn't work on alien spaceships at a

1107
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:07,380
fictional place called S4

1108
00:45:12,530 --> 00:45:10,079
but I I hope that if we collected enough

1109
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:12,540
good data we could kind of push people

1110
00:45:16,970 --> 00:45:14,819
towards studying more credible or

1111
00:45:18,829 --> 00:45:16,980
serious cases

1112
00:45:20,990 --> 00:45:18,839
um that didn't turn out to be the case

1113
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:21,000
as far as cases that I think are well

1114
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:23,160
documented uh

1115
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:24,480
there's a lot of cases that have been

1116
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:27,420
well studied like Tom tulian covered the

1117
00:45:33,470 --> 00:45:30,960
Minot Air Force Base case of 1968 and he

1118
00:45:36,130 --> 00:45:33,480
has a phenomenal website on that I

1119
00:45:41,170 --> 00:45:36,140
believe it's my not

1120
00:45:44,329 --> 00:45:41,180
AFV 52 ufo.com the favorite of the show

1121
00:45:47,450 --> 00:45:44,339
yeah and in that case you know it's got

1122
00:45:49,849 --> 00:45:47,460
radar scope images uh you know dozens of

1123
00:45:52,670 --> 00:45:49,859
testimony just hundreds of pages of

1124
00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:52,680
documentation and those cases fascinate

1125
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:53,880
me the most because there's something

1126
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,640
you can really kind of dig into

1127
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,040
um ultimately I'm not sure what that was

1128
00:46:02,930 --> 00:46:00,480
I'm not sure you will ever know what

1129
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,940
that is but uh

1130
00:46:08,569 --> 00:46:04,560
yeah I don't know I kind of approached

1131
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:08,579
the topic just from more uh abstractly

1132
00:46:13,849 --> 00:46:09,839
and

1133
00:46:16,609 --> 00:46:13,859
just the kind of the the vast amounts of

1134
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:16,619
historical data out there I used to dig

1135
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:18,780
dig into individual cases more often

1136
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,180
when I was you know younger and getting

1137
00:46:27,170 --> 00:46:23,760
into things you know like I I spent a

1138
00:46:29,210 --> 00:46:27,180
long time studying raw as well Etc and a

1139
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:29,220
lot of the other more famous cases but

1140
00:46:34,370 --> 00:46:32,400
uh at this point I don't think there's

1141
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,380
good cases I think this interesting

1142
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,960
cases but not compelling cases

1143
00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:39,119
could you give us your take your take on

1144
00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:43,380
the um Nimitz encounters so

1145
00:46:47,569 --> 00:46:45,900
so yeah Nimitz was again I mentioned I

1146
00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:47,579
thought it was something that I had a

1147
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:49,800
lot of high hopes for because you know

1148
00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:51,960
here we had military we had a military

1149
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:56,040
video you know we had incredible

1150
00:47:00,349 --> 00:46:58,380
Witnesses whatever that means

1151
00:47:01,910 --> 00:47:00,359
um but

1152
00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:01,920
and that's kind of one of the reasons

1153
00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:04,500
why uh like Robert invited me to the

1154
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,180
first Su conference in 2019 and

1155
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:11,280
read through their entire report I

1156
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:13,020
talked to a lot of people that they used

1157
00:47:17,150 --> 00:47:15,119
in creating that report

1158
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,160
um including a guy up in Canada who was

1159
00:47:21,050 --> 00:47:19,680
an app floor expert that they kind of

1160
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:21,060
used to consult when they made the

1161
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:22,020
report

1162
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:25,020
and just the more I I looked at it the

1163
00:47:28,849 --> 00:47:26,640
more I saw that

1164
00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:28,859
like many cases It ultimately comes down

1165
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:30,780
to witness testimony there isn't any

1166
00:47:37,930 --> 00:47:33,920
actual hard data for it we have a video

1167
00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:37,940
that could be countless different things

1168
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,940
and all the fancy math and the

1169
00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:43,440
maneuverabilities and capabilities

1170
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:45,480
people talk about the speeds the

1171
00:47:49,309 --> 00:47:46,740
g-forces

1172
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:49,319
ultimately come down to what somebody

1173
00:47:55,809 --> 00:47:52,560
says they remember seeing on a screen

1174
00:47:59,870 --> 00:47:55,819
20 almost 20 years ago it's it's

1175
00:48:01,790 --> 00:47:59,880
it looks good initially but It

1176
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:01,800
ultimately doesn't have any more data

1177
00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:04,740
backing it up than countless other cases

1178
00:48:10,010 --> 00:48:06,780
in fact there's historical cases I think

1179
00:48:12,050 --> 00:48:10,020
that have more data backing it up you

1180
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:12,060
know where we actually have radar scope

1181
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:14,040
images at least like the Minot Air Force

1182
00:48:18,770 --> 00:48:16,079
Base case we don't even have that with

1183
00:48:21,050 --> 00:48:18,780
Nimitz I think Nimitz and many of those

1184
00:48:23,809 --> 00:48:21,060
cases are at a point where

1185
00:48:25,490 --> 00:48:23,819
because they're old now they may be

1186
00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:25,500
newer than some of the ancient

1187
00:48:30,109 --> 00:48:27,660
historical cases I don't think we'll

1188
00:48:32,329 --> 00:48:30,119
ever get real answers to

1189
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,339
but there's a lot of people that spend

1190
00:48:35,870 --> 00:48:34,319
every day all day digging into just the

1191
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:35,880
nimet so the gimbal case and they've

1192
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,319
been doing that for the last five years

1193
00:48:42,290 --> 00:48:39,900
hoping to find new data that helps

1194
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,300
support their case and I just I don't

1195
00:48:46,130 --> 00:48:44,400
see that happening personally

1196
00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:46,140
you touched seven a second ago but

1197
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:48,119
what's your take on um kind of that

1198
00:48:53,690 --> 00:48:50,400
concept or that narrative pushed about

1199
00:48:55,069 --> 00:48:53,700
um trained or expert observers in a case

1200
00:48:56,569 --> 00:48:55,079
uh

1201
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:56,579
I don't

1202
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:00,720
okay so there you can certainly be a

1203
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:03,300
better Observer than other people but

1204
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:06,060
we're all human and we're all subject to

1205
00:49:10,550 --> 00:49:08,520
the same kind of making the same kind of

1206
00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:10,560
mistakes whether it's like perceptual

1207
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:14,040
errors visual Illusions even so people

1208
00:49:17,630 --> 00:49:15,480
are constantly putting up military

1209
00:49:19,550 --> 00:49:17,640
Pilots as like the top-notch best

1210
00:49:22,550 --> 00:49:19,560
witness you can get right military

1211
00:49:25,309 --> 00:49:22,560
Pilots are still just like any pilot is

1212
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:25,319
still subject to countless you know

1213
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,540
spatial temporal illusions that can

1214
00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:29,280
occur when they're flying in fact

1215
00:49:34,190 --> 00:49:31,319
fighter pilots more so than normal

1216
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:34,200
Pilots are subjected to this kind of

1217
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:37,560
stuff where you just you can't train it

1218
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,780
away and multiple Studies have shown

1219
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,520
that you can't train away some of this

1220
00:49:45,770 --> 00:49:43,920
stuff so it's not that these guys are

1221
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,780
liars or being dishonest or even

1222
00:49:49,730 --> 00:49:47,280
necessarily confabulating and I believe

1223
00:49:50,809 --> 00:49:49,740
they saw what they think they saw I just

1224
00:49:53,210 --> 00:49:50,819
don't think you can take that as

1225
00:49:55,069 --> 00:49:53,220
evidence because people make mistakes no

1226
00:49:57,050 --> 00:49:55,079
matter how well trained you are yeah

1227
00:49:59,390 --> 00:49:57,060
even heinek himself pointed out out

1228
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,400
Military Witnesses and Pilots are some

1229
00:50:03,470 --> 00:50:01,200
of the worst Witnesses

1230
00:50:04,550 --> 00:50:03,480
he mentions that in one of his books

1231
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:04,560
yeah

1232
00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:07,140
um the the new UAP report that came out

1233
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:09,180
I think uh my major I mean it was kind

1234
00:50:12,410 --> 00:50:10,920
of a dud but my major takeaway from it

1235
00:50:16,730 --> 00:50:12,420
was that there was

1236
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:16,740
what about a 170 cases that are examples

1237
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:19,200
of servicemen and Pilots misidentifying

1238
00:50:25,970 --> 00:50:22,380
things right we had uh numbers of like

1239
00:50:28,210 --> 00:50:25,980
you know 163 balloons right if these are

1240
00:50:31,309 --> 00:50:28,220
your expert Witnesses however we have

1241
00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:31,319
173 UFO reports of balloons or

1242
00:50:37,130 --> 00:50:33,060
balloon-like entities like Campbell said

1243
00:50:39,170 --> 00:50:37,140
yeah and and I and obviously I disagree

1244
00:50:41,089 --> 00:50:39,180
with what some people interpret the

1245
00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:41,099
report even on our own other Discord

1246
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,660
that we talk about

1247
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,400
I kind of interpret the New York

1248
00:50:48,290 --> 00:50:46,800
reporter saying when they had enough

1249
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:48,300
data they were able to come to

1250
00:50:52,130 --> 00:50:50,040
conclusions like balloons drones

1251
00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:52,140
Airborne clutter and the cases that they

1252
00:50:56,450 --> 00:50:54,420
couldn't figure out is what they just

1253
00:50:58,609 --> 00:50:56,460
didn't have enough data that were kind

1254
00:51:00,650 --> 00:50:58,619
of been that low information Zone and I

1255
00:51:02,750 --> 00:51:00,660
kind of agree with Mick West on that and

1256
00:51:05,089 --> 00:51:02,760
a lot of people don't agree with that

1257
00:51:06,890 --> 00:51:05,099
but I think if they had that quality

1258
00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:06,900
data then they would have been able to

1259
00:51:10,970 --> 00:51:09,359
determine something but a lot of people

1260
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:10,980
just holding that hope that the fact

1261
00:51:14,809 --> 00:51:13,020
that they couldn't explain half of them

1262
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:14,819
or whatever means that there's some real

1263
00:51:19,370 --> 00:51:17,280
good stuff in there I don't think that's

1264
00:51:21,650 --> 00:51:19,380
necessarily the case that'd be nice if

1265
00:51:23,569 --> 00:51:21,660
there was but yeah I agree with that

1266
00:51:25,370 --> 00:51:23,579
sentiment

1267
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:25,380
yeah

1268
00:51:31,490 --> 00:51:28,740
now in some of the uh old cases that we

1269
00:51:34,130 --> 00:51:31,500
do have that are uh Declassified we know

1270
00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:34,140
that blue book did come to conclusions

1271
00:51:40,010 --> 00:51:36,900
on some cases that today we probably

1272
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,020
wouldn't have conclusions being uh

1273
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:43,200
determined like set in stone on uh so

1274
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,540
for example mine at uh the blue book

1275
00:51:49,849 --> 00:51:48,000
report established that the Luminous

1276
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:49,859
object it was like hovering taking off

1277
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:51,900
pursuing the fight thing was on the

1278
00:51:57,049 --> 00:51:54,240
radar interfering with electronics they

1279
00:51:59,630 --> 00:51:57,059
attributed to a a form of ball lightning

1280
00:52:02,510 --> 00:51:59,640
in the Air Force report

1281
00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:02,520
um you know nowadays we sort of don't

1282
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,980
see that ever uh and blah blah blah

1283
00:52:08,569 --> 00:52:06,480
lightning doesn't even exist in the the

1284
00:52:11,089 --> 00:52:08,579
newest report as an option outside of a

1285
00:52:11,770 --> 00:52:11,099
more abstract natural phenomena kind of

1286
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:11,780
thing

1287
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:15,240
do you think that there's any value uh

1288
00:52:20,990 --> 00:52:19,020
it in trying to put uh you know label on

1289
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,000
things if it's a possibility or do you

1290
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:23,280
think it's best to leave it in an empty

1291
00:52:27,890 --> 00:52:26,700
low information Zone yeah what are your

1292
00:52:31,250 --> 00:52:27,900
thoughts on that

1293
00:52:33,049 --> 00:52:31,260
I actually think I think it should be at

1294
00:52:34,609 --> 00:52:33,059
least labeled as likely if that's a

1295
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:34,619
possibility I think when you leave

1296
00:52:39,530 --> 00:52:37,260
things in this unclassified or you know

1297
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:39,540
undefined Zone like they do it just

1298
00:52:44,450 --> 00:52:42,240
leaves people open to speculate that

1299
00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:44,460
it's something anomalous when I don't

1300
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:45,780
think that's necessarily what they're

1301
00:52:51,170 --> 00:52:48,780
saying I think if a case has a likely

1302
00:52:52,849 --> 00:52:51,180
explanation it's not going to be a very

1303
00:52:55,970 --> 00:52:52,859
good data point and it's time to move on

1304
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,980
and that's kind of why I've never been

1305
00:52:58,910 --> 00:52:57,359
really interested in like lights in the

1306
00:53:01,970 --> 00:52:58,920
sky cases or other things that don't

1307
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:01,980
really add data to the story I think if

1308
00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:03,839
something can be possibly explained to

1309
00:53:08,329 --> 00:53:05,880
something then that's that's probably

1310
00:53:10,849 --> 00:53:08,339
good enough to be honest like leaving it

1311
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:10,859
open and because technically you can

1312
00:53:15,170 --> 00:53:12,900
never 100 Define what something's going

1313
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:15,180
to be these are transient phenomena is

1314
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:17,220
that we can't go back and look at really

1315
00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:19,559
like we have to work with limited data

1316
00:53:24,349 --> 00:53:21,720
to come to a conclusion and even then

1317
00:53:28,190 --> 00:53:24,359
it's just a maybe even if you look at

1318
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:28,200
the new UFO report they say a undefined

1319
00:53:32,089 --> 00:53:30,240
doesn't mean unidentified you know and

1320
00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:32,099
these definitions aren't a hundred

1321
00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:33,900
percent you know there's a possibility

1322
00:53:37,390 --> 00:53:35,160
could change

1323
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:37,400
and yeah they have things like

1324
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:41,359
uncharacterized unidentified objects

1325
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:43,020
uncharacterized does not mean

1326
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,540
unidentified

1327
00:53:49,730 --> 00:53:47,760
like it's it's the problem is all this

1328
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:49,740
ambiguity in the language that they're

1329
00:53:54,109 --> 00:53:52,079
using just leaves it open for the

1330
00:53:56,930 --> 00:53:54,119
conspiracy theorists to speculate about

1331
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:56,940
whatever they want it to mean and that's

1332
00:54:02,329 --> 00:53:59,280
unfortunate I think they could be a

1333
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:02,339
little bit more direct and the way they

1334
00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:04,140
Define things it is interesting how so

1335
00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:05,400
many of them are balloons of

1336
00:54:09,770 --> 00:54:08,220
balloon-like entities you know I I I've

1337
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:09,780
heard that theories that that's just the

1338
00:54:13,549 --> 00:54:11,460
catch-all that they put everything good

1339
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,559
in they call it a balloon and that's the

1340
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,359
good stuff there but

1341
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:17,760
no I I don't think so

1342
00:54:22,609 --> 00:54:20,640
I think uh if if that thing in the sky

1343
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:22,619
looks like a cloud it's probably a cloud

1344
00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:24,720
not a UFO with the cloud cloaking device

1345
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:27,540
you know if it has a potential Passaic

1346
00:54:32,210 --> 00:54:30,240
explanation if it's not if it's just a

1347
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,220
line in the sky and it's not doing

1348
00:54:37,069 --> 00:54:34,800
anything truly crazy it's probably just

1349
00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:37,079
something prosaic can we say 100 what

1350
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:39,240
that light was whether it was a drone or

1351
00:54:45,589 --> 00:54:41,940
a balloon or a Chinese lantern or a UFO

1352
00:54:48,770 --> 00:54:45,599
no but if it could be something prosaic

1353
00:54:52,970 --> 00:54:48,780
I say toss it in the bin move on to the

1354
00:54:56,809 --> 00:54:54,650
and I think that's what a lot of old

1355
00:54:58,370 --> 00:54:56,819
researchers kind of I think heinek had

1356
00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:58,380
that same kind of opinion like if it's

1357
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,380
if it has a bizaic explanation or it

1358
00:55:07,790 --> 00:55:03,359
could at least likely probably be that

1359
00:55:10,750 --> 00:55:08,930
what do you think of some of the

1360
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:10,760
pitfalls that people make when they're

1361
00:55:17,809 --> 00:55:15,960
applying statistical analyzes to UFOs

1362
00:55:20,270 --> 00:55:17,819
well that's

1363
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,280
okay I'll use an example you guys

1364
00:55:23,569 --> 00:55:22,559
familiar with aim Amy Mikhail I don't

1365
00:55:25,370 --> 00:55:23,579
know that's how you pronounce the guy's

1366
00:55:26,809 --> 00:55:25,380
name he came up with the the thought of

1367
00:55:29,329 --> 00:55:26,819
knee Theory this the straight line

1368
00:55:32,030 --> 00:55:29,339
mystery was his book where he basically

1369
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:32,040
thought that you could map UFO sightings

1370
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:33,720
on a straight line

1371
00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:36,420
um like by day like you know like if you

1372
00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:37,740
have like a map of the world you could

1373
00:55:41,569 --> 00:55:39,300
find like sightings along a straight

1374
00:55:43,730 --> 00:55:41,579
line on that like same time period and

1375
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:43,740
the problem is like for example in his

1376
00:55:48,049 --> 00:55:46,260
case he cherry-picked the data to just

1377
00:55:49,849 --> 00:55:48,059
cases that would fit on the lines that

1378
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,859
he was looking for and just dismissed

1379
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,599
everything else and then you had the

1380
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,000
issue how good is that data that you're

1381
00:55:59,210 --> 00:55:56,640
using in your statistical analysis some

1382
00:56:02,210 --> 00:55:59,220
may be good and supported by either

1383
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:02,220
great witness testimony or additional

1384
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,760
data others could be less good you know

1385
00:56:10,490 --> 00:56:08,160
if you're doing statistical analysis on

1386
00:56:13,309 --> 00:56:10,500
garbage data you're going to get garbage

1387
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:13,319
stats outside so garbage and garbage out

1388
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:14,880
yep

1389
00:56:18,109 --> 00:56:16,440
so so check so Jeff we've mostly

1390
00:56:20,030 --> 00:56:18,119
dedicated the conversation to this

1391
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:20,040
historic cases and like what I would

1392
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:21,839
characterize is like nuts and bolts

1393
00:56:26,210 --> 00:56:23,940
style cases right like sightings and

1394
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,220
physical things what are your thoughts

1395
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:29,040
or what's your perspective on

1396
00:56:32,510 --> 00:56:30,660
um I guess the convergence of this

1397
00:56:34,250 --> 00:56:32,520
subject towards Consciousness and

1398
00:56:36,049 --> 00:56:34,260
towards some of the bigger metaphysical

1399
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,059
questions what are your thoughts there

1400
00:56:39,170 --> 00:56:38,160
uh

1401
00:56:43,210 --> 00:56:39,180
um

1402
00:56:45,950 --> 00:56:43,220
I I don't know I'm I'm uh

1403
00:56:48,049 --> 00:56:45,960
not uh

1404
00:56:51,410 --> 00:56:48,059
to be honest I kind of dismiss a lot of

1405
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:51,420
that stuff as more kind of new AG like a

1406
00:56:53,809 --> 00:56:52,500
lot of these Quantum ideas of

1407
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:53,819
Consciousness and people bringing all

1408
00:56:58,849 --> 00:56:56,400
this Consciousness stuff into UFOs I

1409
00:57:00,770 --> 00:56:58,859
just I I think that's just all new age

1410
00:57:02,809 --> 00:57:00,780
speculation without any sort of evidence

1411
00:57:04,130 --> 00:57:02,819
you can you can be honest you're not

1412
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:04,140
gonna hurt my feelings if you're not

1413
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:06,000
into the world

1414
00:57:13,089 --> 00:57:09,119
yeah I'm most definitely not a not a woo

1415
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:13,099
person I'm I'm very materialist but uh

1416
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:18,300
uh I think that people use Consciousness

1417
00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:21,000
to kind of again bring a lot of woo into

1418
00:57:25,730 --> 00:57:22,800
this field we don't even know what

1419
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,740
Consciousness is like yes as opposed to

1420
00:57:29,690 --> 00:57:28,079
you know other areas like Neuroscience

1421
00:57:32,270 --> 00:57:29,700
in the brain and all this other stuff

1422
00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:32,280
like like I think it's a little too

1423
00:57:35,329 --> 00:57:33,540
early to start bringing into the topic

1424
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:35,339
of ufology

1425
00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:36,720
but

1426
00:57:43,370 --> 00:57:41,030
have you collaborated much with Erica

1427
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:43,380
Luke's who's also got an extensive um

1428
00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:47,280
archival collection I I haven't

1429
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:49,740
um in fact I I don't think I've even

1430
00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:53,280
talked to Erica personally

1431
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,740
um I've always been a fan I used to see

1432
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:57,599
her at various like moves on and other

1433
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:00,480
conferences back in the day and actually

1434
00:58:06,049 --> 00:58:03,599
it was uh Jan aldrick that really

1435
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,059
started telling me a lot more about her

1436
00:58:10,849 --> 00:58:08,880
and you know because he had started kind

1437
00:58:12,410 --> 00:58:10,859
of you know him and Barry had just kind

1438
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,420
of started mentioning her with her

1439
00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:14,160
historical research and stuff like that

1440
00:58:18,829 --> 00:58:16,260
and so when I got involved in the

1441
00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:18,839
history group a few years back they kind

1442
00:58:22,010 --> 00:58:20,700
of uh brought her up to me and started

1443
00:58:24,349 --> 00:58:22,020
talking about her and all the great work

1444
00:58:25,790 --> 00:58:24,359
that she was doing and started following

1445
00:58:27,950 --> 00:58:25,800
her back then but I don't think I've

1446
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:27,960
actually uh outside of you know online

1447
00:58:33,470 --> 00:58:30,720
ever talked to her collaborated with her

1448
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:33,480
so I'd like to I'd love to visit her

1449
00:58:36,770 --> 00:58:35,040
archives that she's got down there in

1450
00:58:39,289 --> 00:58:36,780
Utah she's got some great looking stuff

1451
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:39,299
that I'd love to see and my mom lives in

1452
00:58:43,490 --> 00:58:41,119
the Salt Lake area so

1453
00:58:45,890 --> 00:58:43,500
next next time I go visit my mom I'd

1454
00:58:49,250 --> 00:58:45,900
love to visit you Erica

1455
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:49,260
well what about the skinwalker Saga

1456
00:58:54,049 --> 00:58:50,960
um

1457
00:58:56,510 --> 00:58:54,059
what are like some historical precedents

1458
00:58:57,950 --> 00:58:56,520
for that type of story

1459
00:59:00,049 --> 00:58:57,960
because it sort of goes a little bit

1460
00:59:03,069 --> 00:59:00,059
beyond just UFOs there's also kind of a

1461
00:59:05,410 --> 00:59:03,079
Creature Feature aspect to it you know

1462
00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:05,420
werewolves and stuff I will just mention

1463
00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:08,460
so I've actually spent a lot of time at

1464
00:59:11,450 --> 00:59:09,960
Skinwalker Ranch

1465
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:11,460
um I've camped out there for about three

1466
00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:14,400
weeks uh on the corner on what they call

1467
00:59:18,770 --> 00:59:17,220
the UFO watch spot to the locals it's

1468
00:59:20,329 --> 00:59:18,780
basically kind of at the corner fence of

1469
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:20,339
the property like you can't obviously go

1470
00:59:24,589 --> 00:59:22,799
on to land but I've spent about three

1471
00:59:26,809 --> 00:59:24,599
weeks with the Knights camping out there

1472
00:59:28,690 --> 00:59:26,819
using much of the same equipment they do

1473
00:59:31,690 --> 00:59:28,700
on the show busting out all my

1474
00:59:36,349 --> 00:59:31,700
software-defined radios floor Imaging

1475
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:36,359
you know night vision cameras and uh

1476
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:39,359
I've never seen anything

1477
00:59:42,890 --> 00:59:39,960
um

1478
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:42,900
you know my dog has gone crazy when

1479
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:45,000
we're out there and people mention these

1480
00:59:49,970 --> 00:59:47,220
big black dogs I'll tell you right now

1481
00:59:52,010 --> 00:59:49,980
they've got a neighbor that's got these

1482
00:59:53,569 --> 00:59:52,020
like big black dogs that just run wild

1483
00:59:54,890 --> 00:59:53,579
over the whole neighborhood and I

1484
00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:54,900
wouldn't be surprised that's what some

1485
00:59:58,250 --> 00:59:56,819
of these people are seeing and I've

1486
01:00:00,049 --> 00:59:58,260
watched videos of people that have gone

1487
01:00:01,490 --> 01:00:00,059
out at Skinwalker Ranch and filmed a

1488
01:00:03,950 --> 01:00:01,500
kind of our own YouTube little shows

1489
01:00:05,809 --> 01:00:03,960
about it and I've seen the same things

1490
01:00:06,890 --> 01:00:05,819
that they're pointing to and they're

1491
01:00:08,569 --> 01:00:06,900
like they're pointing to like the

1492
01:00:11,569 --> 01:00:08,579
neighbor's Ranch light and saying it's a

1493
01:00:13,549 --> 01:00:11,579
UFO like so having actually spent quite

1494
01:00:15,410 --> 01:00:13,559
a bit of time out there I have yet to

1495
01:00:17,569 --> 01:00:15,420
see anything anomalous that doesn't mean

1496
01:00:20,270 --> 01:00:17,579
it isn't happening

1497
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:20,280
the thing is the problem with hot spots

1498
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:22,319
are the very idea hot spots is again

1499
01:00:27,170 --> 01:00:24,240
it's an issue of like selective data

1500
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:27,180
people are just selecting cases to kind

1501
01:00:31,970 --> 01:00:29,760
of create hot spots like honestly

1502
01:00:35,870 --> 01:00:31,980
there's sightings everywhere all the

1503
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,880
time like everywhere like you can make a

1504
01:00:40,670 --> 01:00:37,680
hot spot out of anywhere to be honest

1505
01:00:42,770 --> 01:00:40,680
like I'm not sure there is anything more

1506
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:42,780
going on and you went to Valley we went

1507
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:44,460
to Basin there then

1508
01:00:50,770 --> 01:00:46,559
is happening anywhere else in the world

1509
01:00:54,109 --> 01:00:52,730
that's actually why I first got on

1510
01:00:55,849 --> 01:00:54,119
Twitter this summer was because I was

1511
01:00:58,370 --> 01:00:55,859
being critical of the the skin marker

1512
01:01:01,130 --> 01:00:58,380
show but uh I actually ended up

1513
01:01:03,049 --> 01:01:01,140
contacting quite a few people I spoke to

1514
01:01:05,450 --> 01:01:03,059
us as Josh stack about his appearance on

1515
01:01:07,309 --> 01:01:05,460
the show um this summer asked because

1516
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:07,319
people were going around saying oh said

1517
01:01:11,150 --> 01:01:08,700
he is going to now be investigating the

1518
01:01:13,309 --> 01:01:11,160
1.6 gigahertz signal like that cannot

1519
01:01:15,049 --> 01:01:13,319
possibly be true so I got in touch with

1520
01:01:16,609 --> 01:01:15,059
him he's like no that's no that's a

1521
01:01:18,770 --> 01:01:16,619
human signal we have no interest in that

1522
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:18,780
whatsoever it's like we told them that

1523
01:01:23,150 --> 01:01:21,119
like yeah that's what I thought I I

1524
01:01:24,530 --> 01:01:23,160
contacted the metallurgists from the

1525
01:01:26,750 --> 01:01:24,540
University of Utah about the metal

1526
01:01:28,010 --> 01:01:26,760
sample they dug out of the ground to see

1527
01:01:30,289 --> 01:01:28,020
if there was anything truly Anonymous

1528
01:01:31,849 --> 01:01:30,299
about it unfortunately he refused to

1529
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:31,859
speak they said they made him sign the

1530
01:01:36,530 --> 01:01:33,839
NDA and he wasn't allowed to talk about

1531
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:36,540
anything he did with the show which

1532
01:01:40,730 --> 01:01:39,119
again I think that's problematic when

1533
01:01:42,710 --> 01:01:40,740
you're making your supposed scientists

1534
01:01:44,329 --> 01:01:42,720
sign ndas where they can't even talk

1535
01:01:46,130 --> 01:01:44,339
about their data while at the same time

1536
01:01:49,069 --> 01:01:46,140
you're creating a TV show making all

1537
01:01:50,329 --> 01:01:49,079
sorts of crazy claims about that data

1538
01:01:52,010 --> 01:01:50,339
but

1539
01:01:54,049 --> 01:01:52,020
Skinwalker is interesting there's a lot

1540
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:54,059
of places that are interesting and a lot

1541
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:55,200
of stories people tell that are

1542
01:02:00,470 --> 01:01:56,880
interesting that

1543
01:02:02,569 --> 01:02:00,480
they're hard to kind of uh

1544
01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:02,579
kind of come to a conclusion too it's

1545
01:02:06,770 --> 01:02:05,400
either that they are crazy they're lying

1546
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:06,780
or something very strange to happen to

1547
01:02:10,370 --> 01:02:07,740
them like when you get into things like

1548
01:02:12,530 --> 01:02:10,380
human cases and things like abductions

1549
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:12,540
which have always been in my gray area

1550
01:02:17,690 --> 01:02:14,880
some of that stuff it's like what's

1551
01:02:19,970 --> 01:02:17,700
really going on either there's something

1552
01:02:21,770 --> 01:02:19,980
Anonymous going on that I don't really

1553
01:02:24,170 --> 01:02:21,780
think is the case or there's something

1554
01:02:25,970 --> 01:02:24,180
psychological going on with those people

1555
01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:25,980
but when it's a light in the sky you can

1556
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:27,420
see how somebody can misidentify that

1557
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:29,400
how do you misidentify someone that

1558
01:02:33,829 --> 01:02:31,020
claims they were standing next to it

1559
01:02:35,510 --> 01:02:33,839
three foot tall alien being and it was

1560
01:02:37,609 --> 01:02:35,520
talking to them or feeding them pancakes

1561
01:02:39,069 --> 01:02:37,619
or whatever like what do you do with

1562
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:39,079
those kind of cases

1563
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:42,540
I'm not sure to be honest

1564
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:43,920
um

1565
01:02:50,569 --> 01:02:46,559
the original UFO Joe and his pancakes

1566
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:52,670
uh just take a moment here when we're

1567
01:02:57,289 --> 01:02:55,980
sort of contemplating good versus bad

1568
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:57,299
evidence

1569
01:03:01,849 --> 01:02:58,799
um there's some comments here I'd love

1570
01:03:04,190 --> 01:03:01,859
to uh like sang beam as um saying so is

1571
01:03:05,390 --> 01:03:04,200
this a panel of Skeptics and I would

1572
01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:05,400
just say

1573
01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:08,040
in some ways yes in some ways no oh

1574
01:03:12,049 --> 01:03:10,380
skeptic right like we should all be

1575
01:03:14,569 --> 01:03:12,059
Skeptics and that's sort of what we're

1576
01:03:16,670 --> 01:03:14,579
trying to emphasize here is that it's

1577
01:03:19,010 --> 01:03:16,680
good to be skeptical somebody who's

1578
01:03:20,510 --> 01:03:19,020
skeptical of the government is you know

1579
01:03:22,910 --> 01:03:20,520
and then thinks there's stuff going on

1580
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,920
takes a look their conspiracy theorists

1581
01:03:26,890 --> 01:03:24,480
until they find a conspiracy and then

1582
01:03:30,349 --> 01:03:26,900
they're historian so you know skepticism

1583
01:03:32,329 --> 01:03:30,359
is if it's good or bad depends on what

1584
01:03:34,670 --> 01:03:32,339
you're applying it towards so I think

1585
01:03:38,329 --> 01:03:34,680
that we we should be encouraging people

1586
01:03:40,670 --> 01:03:38,339
to adopt the label skeptic more because

1587
01:03:42,770 --> 01:03:40,680
it enables us if we think that this

1588
01:03:45,849 --> 01:03:42,780
subject has some value to actually get

1589
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:45,859
at what that value is

1590
01:03:49,789 --> 01:03:48,240
yeah and I mean we see this all the time

1591
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:49,799
on this show too that this is definitely

1592
01:03:54,410 --> 01:03:52,260
not a monolith though you will note that

1593
01:03:56,089 --> 01:03:54,420
The Tenors of the show or the tenor of

1594
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:56,099
the show and the discussion changes

1595
01:04:00,410 --> 01:03:58,079
based on what we're discussing and who

1596
01:04:03,289 --> 01:04:00,420
the guests are and what the particular

1597
01:04:05,390 --> 01:04:03,299
methodological approaches are if you're

1598
01:04:07,549 --> 01:04:05,400
looking for some deep woo I did episode

1599
01:04:09,950 --> 01:04:07,559
number 13 and talked about conferences

1600
01:04:12,109 --> 01:04:09,960
and meditation and psychedelics and like

1601
01:04:14,809 --> 01:04:12,119
I am happy to bust out some crystals in

1602
01:04:16,789 --> 01:04:14,819
a future episode but right now the focus

1603
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:16,799
is on a skeptical research driven

1604
01:04:21,289 --> 01:04:19,200
approach to the subject let us all be

1605
01:04:23,750 --> 01:04:21,299
intellectually spacious enough to

1606
01:04:25,970 --> 01:04:23,760
entertain discuss and engage with ideas

1607
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:25,980
that we may not personally believe in or

1608
01:04:30,410 --> 01:04:28,319
agree with right that's what we're here

1609
01:04:32,329 --> 01:04:30,420
to do and just to underline that very

1610
01:04:35,569 --> 01:04:32,339
quickly I would love to draw attention

1611
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:35,579
to our our great fan our friend of the

1612
01:04:40,970 --> 01:04:39,359
show kmf uh and he's saying um in quotes

1613
01:04:43,250 --> 01:04:40,980
and it could be explained to Zach and we

1614
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:43,260
know X exists just assume it is X it's

1615
01:04:47,450 --> 01:04:44,880
nonsensical that means literally nothing

1616
01:04:50,630 --> 01:04:47,460
you can Discover it in any topic now I

1617
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:50,640
would just say to change just assume it

1618
01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:54,960
is X to it probably is X and that

1619
01:04:57,650 --> 01:04:56,520
doesn't mean that it's impossible for it

1620
01:04:59,569 --> 01:04:57,660
to be something else it's just a pure

1621
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:59,579
statistics and that's the exact thing

1622
01:05:03,890 --> 01:05:01,920
that happened with many uh newly

1623
01:05:06,109 --> 01:05:03,900
discovered natural phenomena rogue waves

1624
01:05:08,510 --> 01:05:06,119
uh ball lightning

1625
01:05:10,490 --> 01:05:08,520
um what else the meteors all of these

1626
01:05:12,849 --> 01:05:10,500
things yes exactly long list of

1627
01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:12,859
eyewitness reports that weren't verified

1628
01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:16,920
and we it wasn't reasonable to assume it

1629
01:05:21,230 --> 01:05:19,380
was something new until we had the

1630
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:21,240
evidence so I think that we're all open

1631
01:05:27,049 --> 01:05:24,660
to new information here yes exactly and

1632
01:05:29,210 --> 01:05:27,059
see a lot of people they they give they

1633
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:29,220
think skeptic is a negative thing they

1634
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:30,960
think Skeptics

1635
01:05:34,849 --> 01:05:32,880
don't have any interest in the topic

1636
01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:34,859
they think it's all bunk it's garbage

1637
01:05:38,569 --> 01:05:36,660
and they're just trying to be negative

1638
01:05:40,609 --> 01:05:38,579
or contrarian and trying to dismiss it

1639
01:05:42,890 --> 01:05:40,619
all away I think that's not true at all

1640
01:05:45,049 --> 01:05:42,900
in fact I think it's because

1641
01:05:47,630 --> 01:05:45,059
not only do I care about the in my case

1642
01:05:49,069 --> 01:05:47,640
do I care about this topic but because I

1643
01:05:50,930 --> 01:05:49,079
want to believe there's something

1644
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:50,940
Anonymous out there that I feel it's

1645
01:05:55,549 --> 01:05:53,280
very important to be extra critical and

1646
01:05:58,130 --> 01:05:55,559
extra skeptical about what I do believe

1647
01:06:00,530 --> 01:05:58,140
to kind of outweigh that bias that I

1648
01:06:03,170 --> 01:06:00,540
inherently have I think you've got to be

1649
01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:03,180
skeptical even if you do hope to find

1650
01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:05,220
something because otherwise you're just

1651
01:06:08,690 --> 01:06:06,839
going to start leading yourself down a

1652
01:06:10,910 --> 01:06:08,700
path of belief and that's just the wrong

1653
01:06:13,730 --> 01:06:10,920
approach to take there's nothing wrong

1654
01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:13,740
with being a skeptic like I think all

1655
01:06:20,569 --> 01:06:15,480
serious researchers should be a skeptic

1656
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:22,069
so gentlemen how do we feel about

1657
01:06:25,849 --> 01:06:23,520
opening up the lines

1658
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:25,859
getting some viewer participation Jeff

1659
01:06:30,109 --> 01:06:28,559
are you ready sure all right trial by

1660
01:06:32,089 --> 01:06:30,119
fire my friends yeah so we're gonna open

1661
01:06:33,950 --> 01:06:32,099
up the stream yard um I'll post the link

1662
01:06:35,329 --> 01:06:33,960
in the YouTube chat folks can jump on

1663
01:06:36,829 --> 01:06:35,339
and join us

1664
01:06:39,170 --> 01:06:36,839
um just so you know I always try to

1665
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:39,180
remind people this is not a democracy it

1666
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,980
is a benevolent dictatorship so if

1667
01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:42,480
you're a jerk I'm gonna kick you off the

1668
01:06:44,750 --> 01:06:43,500
stream

1669
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:44,760
um we're here to have a respectful

1670
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:46,559
thoughtful conversations with each other

1671
01:06:51,770 --> 01:06:49,680
but that said uh stream yard is now

1672
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:51,780
posted in the YouTube chat uh feel free

1673
01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:53,520
to jump in I'll see you backstage and

1674
01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:55,500
then get you added to the stream

1675
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:56,880
um it's also totally cool if you just

1676
01:07:03,109 --> 01:06:59,039
want to join voice only and not on video

1677
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:03,119
yep and we're aiming for uh 100 good

1678
01:07:07,789 --> 01:07:05,760
faith discussion if somebody's heard

1679
01:07:10,250 --> 01:07:07,799
something that they don't agree with

1680
01:07:13,609 --> 01:07:10,260
that I or anybody else has said please

1681
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:13,619
do bring it to us and correct me if I've

1682
01:07:18,170 --> 01:07:15,599
said something wrong and uh you know

1683
01:07:20,450 --> 01:07:18,180
you'll get a wholehearted uh thank you

1684
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:20,460
from me so um if that is something that

1685
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:22,400
you're looking for Jump Right In

1686
01:07:28,370 --> 01:07:25,680
absolutely we don't have to agree but we

1687
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,380
can get along that's fine

1688
01:07:34,970 --> 01:07:30,240
oh hey we have one of our favorite

1689
01:07:40,670 --> 01:07:38,150
Sparky hello hey can you guys hear me

1690
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:40,680
okay we're done we're delighted to have

1691
01:07:52,190 --> 01:07:42,240
you

1692
01:07:56,089 --> 01:07:52,200
also just say what a neat group this has

1693
01:07:57,470 --> 01:07:56,099
grown to become like I knew I met Leah a

1694
01:07:59,150 --> 01:07:57,480
while ago

1695
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:59,160
um you know through another server and

1696
01:08:03,950 --> 01:08:01,280
I'm just I'm so I'm so proud of you all

1697
01:08:06,049 --> 01:08:03,960
it's just this is this is such a

1698
01:08:09,230 --> 01:08:06,059
wonderful such a wonderful conversation

1699
01:08:12,010 --> 01:08:09,240
I feel like it is so balanced it is

1700
01:08:15,650 --> 01:08:12,020
respectful to so many different

1701
01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:15,660
approaches to the topic this topic can

1702
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:18,239
be really really tiresome I told you a

1703
01:08:21,229 --> 01:08:19,920
few you guys that I've you know went

1704
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:21,239
through a stage where I had to step back

1705
01:08:25,189 --> 01:08:22,799
and take a break because it was really

1706
01:08:26,809 --> 01:08:25,199
just you know it was not only pushing my

1707
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:26,819
own

1708
01:08:35,150 --> 01:08:32,460
universe but it was really trialsome on

1709
01:08:36,650 --> 01:08:35,160
my mind to just see the Discord uh not

1710
01:08:37,970 --> 01:08:36,660
that you know not Discord Discord but

1711
01:08:39,950 --> 01:08:37,980
the Discord in the community about

1712
01:08:41,570 --> 01:08:39,960
things and the you know seeming

1713
01:08:44,450 --> 01:08:41,580
unwillingness of people to try to get

1714
01:08:46,669 --> 01:08:44,460
along but what we have here in in this

1715
01:08:49,130 --> 01:08:46,679
group is so special because

1716
01:08:51,050 --> 01:08:49,140
we realized that there are experiences

1717
01:08:52,970 --> 01:08:51,060
of different kinds and we realize that

1718
01:08:55,070 --> 01:08:52,980
it is not just one explanation with

1719
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:55,080
what's going on here it's a whole host

1720
01:08:59,150 --> 01:08:57,299
of different things and I just I'm so

1721
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:59,160
proud to call you guys my friends I just

1722
01:09:02,570 --> 01:09:00,480
wanted to tell you that

1723
01:09:04,130 --> 01:09:02,580
yeah Sparky thank you and in many

1724
01:09:06,169 --> 01:09:04,140
respects this is kind of your fault

1725
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:06,179
because I met all this cast of

1726
01:09:11,090 --> 01:09:08,940
characters because of you uh when I was

1727
01:09:12,110 --> 01:09:11,100
living my my lonesome dreams over the

1728
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:12,120
summer

1729
01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:13,859
um oh man and you connected me with

1730
01:09:17,390 --> 01:09:15,839
everyone and kind of took off from there

1731
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,400
we're just delighted to hear from you

1732
01:09:21,769 --> 01:09:19,440
and have you here with us yeah we miss

1733
01:09:24,590 --> 01:09:21,779
you it's wonderful yeah I do miss you I

1734
01:09:27,610 --> 01:09:24,600
know that I still owe a um a little bit

1735
01:09:31,450 --> 01:09:27,620
of a uh paper and a discussion about

1736
01:09:38,269 --> 01:09:34,749
thank you it is over Purdue man

1737
01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:38,279
so oh my gosh yeah I better get on top

1738
01:09:42,950 --> 01:09:40,020
of that but I fit it you know I finished

1739
01:09:46,010 --> 01:09:42,960
um I finished my pilot's license I got a

1740
01:09:47,510 --> 01:09:46,020
new job fully remote job that I start

1741
01:09:50,749 --> 01:09:47,520
um week after next that's going to allow

1742
01:09:52,430 --> 01:09:50,759
me a lot more mental space to just sink

1743
01:09:54,770 --> 01:09:52,440
into things again instead of be

1744
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:54,780
constantly spun up so I'm it's almost a

1745
01:09:59,150 --> 01:09:56,640
it's like a working sabbatical in a way

1746
01:10:01,729 --> 01:09:59,160
that's awesome the remote works the life

1747
01:10:04,490 --> 01:10:01,739
yeah promote work rules I haven't worn

1748
01:10:06,290 --> 01:10:04,500
jeans since March 2020. hell yeah so

1749
01:10:09,410 --> 01:10:06,300
that's the way to go yeah no more hard

1750
01:10:11,810 --> 01:10:09,420
pants yeah in my my new boss is super

1751
01:10:13,790 --> 01:10:11,820
cool he's you know I told him like Hey I

1752
01:10:14,930 --> 01:10:13,800
plan on like like micro dosing do you

1753
01:10:16,130 --> 01:10:14,940
have an issue with that he's like no I

1754
01:10:17,450 --> 01:10:16,140
really don't care what you do as long as

1755
01:10:21,950 --> 01:10:17,460
you get your job done do whatever you

1756
01:10:24,530 --> 01:10:21,960
want like okay winning like awesome that

1757
01:10:26,570 --> 01:10:24,540
is a good boss yeah a little more time

1758
01:10:27,770 --> 01:10:26,580
to explore my own Consciousness as well

1759
01:10:29,810 --> 01:10:27,780
which I think is going to be really

1760
01:10:33,169 --> 01:10:29,820
valuable

1761
01:10:34,970 --> 01:10:33,179
so awesome yeah only time you want to

1762
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:34,980
jump on anytime you want to join a show

1763
01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:37,440
we'd love to have you and of course yes

1764
01:10:42,370 --> 01:10:39,780
always love to back Channel with you too

1765
01:10:44,689 --> 01:10:42,380
oh yeah whenever you're available

1766
01:10:46,850 --> 01:10:44,699
absolutely definitely

1767
01:10:50,390 --> 01:10:46,860
um I think this I had a question for

1768
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:50,400
Jeff and if he is already explored this

1769
01:10:55,189 --> 01:10:52,679
and would rather that I just listened to

1770
01:10:57,649 --> 01:10:55,199
the VOD then I will do that but Jeff I

1771
01:10:59,149 --> 01:10:57,659
want to know like is there any oh I

1772
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:59,159
think this was asked and I think I

1773
01:11:02,570 --> 01:11:00,960
missed the answer to it

1774
01:11:04,550 --> 01:11:02,580
um what has been the most interesting

1775
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,560
case to you and the most mysterious case

1776
01:11:08,990 --> 01:11:06,480
to you whether or not you think it is uh

1777
01:11:10,669 --> 01:11:09,000
truly mysterious or you know you

1778
01:11:12,169 --> 01:11:10,679
researched it and it was so weird and

1779
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:12,179
then the explanation was super weird

1780
01:11:16,669 --> 01:11:13,920
even though it was still prosaic I'm

1781
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:17,450
um

1782
01:11:26,570 --> 01:11:23,689
I say it's a hard it's a hard question I

1783
01:11:28,070 --> 01:11:26,580
get asked that all the time and it's

1784
01:11:30,770 --> 01:11:28,080
very hard for me to come up with any

1785
01:11:34,189 --> 01:11:30,780
case that I think is really that I found

1786
01:11:34,970 --> 01:11:34,199
really interesting or compelling

1787
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:34,980
um

1788
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,159
I I tend to uh I I do I still find the

1789
01:11:42,649 --> 01:11:40,320
Roswell case interesting after all these

1790
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:42,659
years for many different reasons

1791
01:11:46,130 --> 01:11:44,400
um not the least witches that people are

1792
01:11:49,910 --> 01:11:46,140
still digging into it after 70 something

1793
01:11:51,530 --> 01:11:49,920
years uh yeah but I I personally don't

1794
01:11:52,610 --> 01:11:51,540
believe anything anomalously happened

1795
01:11:56,810 --> 01:11:52,620
there

1796
01:11:59,570 --> 01:11:56,820
look at this stuff that doesn't involve

1797
01:12:00,830 --> 01:11:59,580
the cases truly being anomalous or

1798
01:12:02,689 --> 01:12:00,840
really having any sort of compelling

1799
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:02,699
evidence

1800
01:12:07,010 --> 01:12:05,520
um as far as things I find interesting I

1801
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:07,020
do find that humanoid case is

1802
01:12:11,149 --> 01:12:08,640
interesting and like I said the really

1803
01:12:14,450 --> 01:12:11,159
Oddball the high strangeness stuff that

1804
01:12:16,130 --> 01:12:14,460
it's just what do you do with like

1805
01:12:17,450 --> 01:12:16,140
they're they're just very interesting

1806
01:12:20,330 --> 01:12:17,460
some of them are just super crazy

1807
01:12:23,630 --> 01:12:20,340
stories but

1808
01:12:26,510 --> 01:12:23,640
yeah like go on go you know beyond that

1809
01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:29,270
as far as I say cases again that are

1810
01:12:34,669 --> 01:12:31,860
heavily documented uh I mentioned the

1811
01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:34,679
Minot case uh somebody in the chat has

1812
01:12:39,290 --> 01:12:36,540
been talking about Mouse Jim that's the

1813
01:12:42,050 --> 01:12:39,300
case I've been very clear about in the

1814
01:12:43,970 --> 01:12:42,060
past again as a case that's been looked

1815
01:12:45,470 --> 01:12:43,980
at by a lot of great people over the

1816
01:12:48,350 --> 01:12:45,480
years

1817
01:12:51,169 --> 01:12:48,360
um and I've expressed my opinion that

1818
01:12:53,450 --> 01:12:51,179
I think Robert solace's mom stream case

1819
01:12:56,270 --> 01:12:53,460
didn't exist it never happened he's

1820
01:12:59,890 --> 01:12:56,280
confabulating based on bad memories of

1821
01:13:02,689 --> 01:12:59,900
what actually happened at Echo flight

1822
01:13:05,390 --> 01:13:02,699
I think that's a case where you had

1823
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,400
something that really happened some some

1824
01:13:10,370 --> 01:13:07,440
silos were shut down

1825
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:10,380
but there's no evidence that a UFO was

1826
01:13:15,169 --> 01:13:12,960
involved in that a lot of that was added

1827
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:15,179
you know after the fact over the years

1828
01:13:19,490 --> 01:13:18,480
oh wow and for example the solid side of

1829
01:13:22,250 --> 01:13:19,500
the story

1830
01:13:24,830 --> 01:13:22,260
he he didn't even remember it until he

1831
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:24,840
went underwent hypnosis and then he had

1832
01:13:28,669 --> 01:13:26,640
to change his story at least two or

1833
01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:28,679
three separate times to match with the

1834
01:13:33,229 --> 01:13:31,260
known facts of the case to try and fit

1835
01:13:35,630 --> 01:13:33,239
in what he believed happened with what

1836
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:35,640
we know actually happened there we may

1837
01:13:41,149 --> 01:13:39,120
not know 100 why those silos shut down I

1838
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,159
mean they have ideas and theories that

1839
01:13:45,530 --> 01:13:43,500
of what happened but again that's

1840
01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:45,540
something that you know we're never

1841
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:47,400
going to have a 100 answer for because

1842
01:13:51,770 --> 01:13:50,100
they didn't come to one back then and

1843
01:13:54,530 --> 01:13:51,780
that's allowed people to build these

1844
01:13:57,050 --> 01:13:54,540
modern mythologies on top of these old

1845
01:14:00,310 --> 01:13:57,060
cases and you get people like Solace

1846
01:14:04,970 --> 01:14:02,689
I'd love to add to that very briefly

1847
01:14:07,550 --> 01:14:04,980
about Malmstrom because it was at the

1848
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:07,560
citizen uh hearings I believe was in

1849
01:14:12,649 --> 01:14:10,800
2013 that were the uh represented uh not

1850
01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:12,659
former Congressional members were

1851
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:14,520
brought in and did a sort of fake UFO

1852
01:14:19,130 --> 01:14:15,960
hearing thing and they brought in a

1853
01:14:22,189 --> 01:14:19,140
bunch of uh ex military including uh

1854
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:22,199
Salas and uh a captain uh from the Air

1855
01:14:27,410 --> 01:14:24,780
Force retired Bruce fenstermacher who

1856
01:14:30,709 --> 01:14:27,420
testified next to Salas about Malmstrom

1857
01:14:32,810 --> 01:14:30,719
and he talked about how salus foia

1858
01:14:35,450 --> 01:14:32,820
documents and the documents that Salas

1859
01:14:37,490 --> 01:14:35,460
FOID demonstrated that there wasn't a

1860
01:14:40,010 --> 01:14:37,500
what they call like an electromagnetic

1861
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:40,020
event there was no reference to a UFO in

1862
01:14:42,830 --> 01:14:41,520
the internal documents and that there

1863
01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:42,840
was some kind of electromagnetic

1864
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:44,760
feedback in the system it fried the

1865
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:46,560
logic couplers and then they brought in

1866
01:14:52,910 --> 01:14:50,880
Boeing uh Engineers correct that because

1867
01:14:54,350 --> 01:14:52,920
it was an electrical issue and

1868
01:14:55,970 --> 01:14:54,360
apparently it was resolved so that's

1869
01:14:58,430 --> 01:14:55,980
based on Floyd's documents and we don't

1870
01:15:00,649 --> 01:14:58,440
know if you know again

1871
01:15:02,270 --> 01:15:00,659
yeah that hasn't happened since and that

1872
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:02,280
was another thing that has been verified

1873
01:15:06,350 --> 01:15:05,040
that these uh these types of things have

1874
01:15:08,030 --> 01:15:06,360
not happened and that was something the

1875
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:08,040
Fenster mocker actually cited is that

1876
01:15:11,510 --> 01:15:10,080
they wheeled the missiles out he was

1877
01:15:14,149 --> 01:15:11,520
there on the site and they brought them

1878
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:14,159
over fixed them and then they proceeded

1879
01:15:17,870 --> 01:15:16,080
to do that uh you know naturally and

1880
01:15:19,370 --> 01:15:17,880
there haven't been shut down since so

1881
01:15:22,490 --> 01:15:19,380
there's some good evidence there that

1882
01:15:23,870 --> 01:15:22,500
never gets cited uh when the subject's

1883
01:15:25,310 --> 01:15:23,880
brought up and I wish it would because

1884
01:15:27,890 --> 01:15:25,320
then we could just move on to something

1885
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:27,900
that's stronger well this is why people

1886
01:15:32,990 --> 01:15:30,239
really need to read Tim Herbert's work

1887
01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:33,000
on the Maelstrom case he he was he's a

1888
01:15:38,750 --> 01:15:35,580
skeptic but he he was actually a Sac

1889
01:15:40,910 --> 01:15:38,760
missile Commander at Malmstrom and he's

1890
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:40,920
done some of the best work on that case

1891
01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:43,199
both the echo fight and the myth of the

1892
01:15:49,370 --> 01:15:46,140
Oscar flight on his blog and like many

1893
01:15:51,169 --> 01:15:49,380
of these cases if you go back uh there's

1894
01:15:53,570 --> 01:15:51,179
the claim that somebody saw a UFO nearby

1895
01:15:55,310 --> 01:15:53,580
and that's why it became a UFO case

1896
01:15:57,050 --> 01:15:55,320
there's no evidence anybody saw your

1897
01:15:58,850 --> 01:15:57,060
phone nearby there's so much conflicting

1898
01:16:01,070 --> 01:15:58,860
testimony by the people that were there

1899
01:16:03,890 --> 01:16:01,080
at the time that what are you supposed

1900
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:03,900
to do with that so I have a question on

1901
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,760
that sorry and I apologize Jeff I think

1902
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:06,960
I just cut you off but when you're done

1903
01:16:13,550 --> 01:16:09,840
with your thought I do have a something

1904
01:16:15,410 --> 01:16:13,560
so my my my next question on this with

1905
01:16:18,410 --> 01:16:15,420
melmstrom and with a lot of these other

1906
01:16:21,229 --> 01:16:18,420
UFO cases is

1907
01:16:23,390 --> 01:16:21,239
you know uh Salas says that he saw

1908
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:23,400
something and you know if it was after a

1909
01:16:29,630 --> 01:16:26,880
hypnosis or or whatever that's that is

1910
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:29,640
what it is my my curiosity with this

1911
01:16:34,790 --> 01:16:32,159
whole topic is

1912
01:16:37,610 --> 01:16:34,800
you know what

1913
01:16:40,729 --> 01:16:37,620
what motivates someone like Salas to be

1914
01:16:43,070 --> 01:16:40,739
so passionate about what they saw to

1915
01:16:44,270 --> 01:16:43,080
then put themselves out there in

1916
01:16:45,470 --> 01:16:44,280
different press conferences and

1917
01:16:47,209 --> 01:16:45,480
different efforts that part really

1918
01:16:49,729 --> 01:16:47,219
fascinates me and it's not to say that

1919
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,739
it's a proof of anything existing or not

1920
01:16:54,890 --> 01:16:51,840
existing but it's the mental

1921
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:54,900
you know psychological power that these

1922
01:16:58,729 --> 01:16:56,880
experiences have had on people that that

1923
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:58,739
is my fascination with the topic and

1924
01:17:02,030 --> 01:17:00,300
it's so interesting how that thread

1925
01:17:04,610 --> 01:17:02,040
interties with all the other research

1926
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:04,620
that you guys do too

1927
01:17:08,510 --> 01:17:07,199
um it's it's it's just so fascinating to

1928
01:17:11,390 --> 01:17:08,520
me that and that was just kind of my

1929
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:11,400
comments just it blows my mind

1930
01:17:16,610 --> 01:17:14,159
well I and I think with stylus I I don't

1931
01:17:18,830 --> 01:17:16,620
think he's lying per se I think it's a

1932
01:17:21,050 --> 01:17:18,840
case of confabulation we know he was

1933
01:17:24,590 --> 01:17:21,060
working on those Missile Command sites

1934
01:17:26,270 --> 01:17:24,600
back at that time but and in the area I

1935
01:17:29,090 --> 01:17:26,280
think what likely happened is that he he

1936
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:29,100
remembered the echo fight shutdown and

1937
01:17:33,290 --> 01:17:31,920
later on you know just it this idea that

1938
01:17:35,630 --> 01:17:33,300
he was somehow involved with it

1939
01:17:37,310 --> 01:17:35,640
developed in his mind and his memory and

1940
01:17:39,709 --> 01:17:37,320
it's just confabulation it's not true

1941
01:17:41,689 --> 01:17:39,719
dishonesty I think he believes he was

1942
01:17:43,610 --> 01:17:41,699
part of something and that's why he went

1943
01:17:46,610 --> 01:17:43,620
through with hypnosis to try and recover

1944
01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:46,620
more details only they just didn't match

1945
01:17:50,570 --> 01:17:48,239
any facts and you just kind of had to

1946
01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:50,580
construct his story from there I truly

1947
01:17:54,110 --> 01:17:52,320
think he believes he was part of

1948
01:17:56,510 --> 01:17:54,120
something I just don't think he was I

1949
01:17:59,149 --> 01:17:56,520
think that was just confabulation false

1950
01:18:01,669 --> 01:17:59,159
memory is more common than people like

1951
01:18:03,229 --> 01:18:01,679
to admit I mean I've seen it happen in

1952
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:03,239
my own family people come up with all

1953
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:05,040
sorts of crazy things elsewhere happened

1954
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:06,719
I mean I've got some of my own false

1955
01:18:10,250 --> 01:18:08,580
memories that I know are false but

1956
01:18:12,350 --> 01:18:10,260
they're just still so vivid in my mind

1957
01:18:14,030 --> 01:18:12,360
that you know I it's where they happened

1958
01:18:16,729 --> 01:18:14,040
even though I know they didn't and I'll

1959
01:18:19,610 --> 01:18:16,739
just add a couple details that um uh

1960
01:18:22,910 --> 01:18:19,620
Solace actually never uh claimed to see

1961
01:18:25,010 --> 01:18:22,920
a UFO himself at the base he presents

1962
01:18:27,410 --> 01:18:25,020
that he received a radio transmission

1963
01:18:29,990 --> 01:18:27,420
from the security team saying that they

1964
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:30,000
saw a red glowing object

1965
01:18:34,310 --> 01:18:32,159
um so that alone is quite significant is

1966
01:18:36,590 --> 01:18:34,320
something that people don't emphasize

1967
01:18:38,510 --> 01:18:36,600
and when I first learned about it you

1968
01:18:40,310 --> 01:18:38,520
know it makes me feel disappointed when

1969
01:18:42,229 --> 01:18:40,320
somebody is saying how strong it is and

1970
01:18:44,270 --> 01:18:42,239
then like I look into it and the facts

1971
01:18:46,729 --> 01:18:44,280
aren't lining up like it's just causing

1972
01:18:48,590 --> 01:18:46,739
like to be just on the side of the true

1973
01:18:50,810 --> 01:18:48,600
Seeker for a second here I just want to

1974
01:18:53,630 --> 01:18:50,820
point out like I want to be convinced I

1975
01:18:55,070 --> 01:18:53,640
want the best evidence and like if I

1976
01:18:57,830 --> 01:18:55,080
look into it and then it's not at all

1977
01:19:00,649 --> 01:18:57,840
what I was told it it turns me off the

1978
01:19:02,689 --> 01:19:00,659
subject more generally uh so I and you

1979
01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:02,699
know so I just would suggest like uh

1980
01:19:06,709 --> 01:19:04,980
being upfront with those details well

1981
01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:06,719
and then you end up with like at the

1982
01:19:10,729 --> 01:19:08,760
here in Congress last year you got

1983
01:19:12,770 --> 01:19:10,739
people asking about the Solace case like

1984
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:12,780
congressman asking about the Solace case

1985
01:19:18,590 --> 01:19:15,360
like right he makes you really wonder

1986
01:19:20,810 --> 01:19:18,600
what data they've actually seen if

1987
01:19:23,450 --> 01:19:20,820
they're bringing up cases that just are

1988
01:19:25,130 --> 01:19:23,460
based on stories from you know how many

1989
01:19:26,689 --> 01:19:25,140
years ago like

1990
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,699
obviously they found that case

1991
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:28,560
compelling enough to ask questions about

1992
01:19:33,770 --> 01:19:30,960
it but there's not really anything to

1993
01:19:35,209 --> 01:19:33,780
that case so it could that possibly be

1994
01:19:37,010 --> 01:19:35,219
true with some of the other claims some

1995
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:37,020
of these politicians are making when

1996
01:19:41,570 --> 01:19:39,440
they come out and say there's data of

1997
01:19:43,209 --> 01:19:41,580
multi-sensor data of all these

1998
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:43,219
phenomenal like

1999
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:45,900
appearances of objects moving you know

2000
01:19:51,410 --> 01:19:48,179
with capabilities we can't explain

2001
01:19:53,149 --> 01:19:51,420
well is there really the data or is it

2002
01:19:55,490 --> 01:19:53,159
just again they've been told stories by

2003
01:19:58,880 --> 01:19:55,500
former service members and they take

2004
01:20:00,169 --> 01:19:58,890
that all to heart I don't know

2005
01:20:02,209 --> 01:20:00,179
[Music]

2006
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:02,219
it's a fascinating discussion about it

2007
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:04,140
and yeah so go ahead Leah I'm going to

2008
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:05,760
jump out and let someone else pop in but

2009
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:08,400
sure of course Sparky such a pleasure

2010
01:20:15,709 --> 01:20:13,729
um I was gonna say my contribution to

2011
01:20:17,810 --> 01:20:15,719
sell as discourse is people he used to

2012
01:20:19,430 --> 01:20:17,820
follow me on Twitter and I always he

2013
01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:19,440
used to kind of mansplain to me things

2014
01:20:22,729 --> 01:20:20,940
that I would post about math and science

2015
01:20:24,350 --> 01:20:22,739
and I used to kind of flirt back at him

2016
01:20:27,050 --> 01:20:24,360
and be like oh maybe you could tutor me

2017
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:27,060
and then he unfollowed me and blocked me

2018
01:20:31,250 --> 01:20:28,980
because I called him daddy nukes in one

2019
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:31,260
of my roles like so

2020
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:33,600
um just in case anyone wants to know how

2021
01:20:39,169 --> 01:20:36,719
effectively I straddle uh

2022
01:20:41,149 --> 01:20:39,179
both sides of the conversation

2023
01:20:43,070 --> 01:20:41,159
um that's case in point okay yeah so we

2024
01:20:45,169 --> 01:20:43,080
have song Behind the Scenes I'm going to

2025
01:20:48,410 --> 01:20:45,179
bring you on to the Stream

2026
01:20:52,189 --> 01:20:48,420
hey what's going on uh hi um I just got

2027
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:52,199
interested in this UAP UFO topic is

2028
01:20:58,669 --> 01:20:55,199
um I guess it became more pronounced in

2029
01:21:00,649 --> 01:20:58,679
like 17 2017 2018 and I served in the US

2030
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:00,659
Air Force at Maelstrom and a bunch of

2031
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:02,880
other bases and things uh when I was in

2032
01:21:08,990 --> 01:21:05,880
enlisted in the Air Force so one thing

2033
01:21:10,430 --> 01:21:09,000
is that it's very hard to get the

2034
01:21:13,010 --> 01:21:10,440
information because a lot of it is

2035
01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:13,020
classified and not because of uaps or

2036
01:21:17,330 --> 01:21:15,900
UFOs in general and a lot of people in

2037
01:21:19,130 --> 01:21:17,340
general public or Skeptics or

2038
01:21:20,450 --> 01:21:19,140
researchers won't understand this unless

2039
01:21:22,010 --> 01:21:20,460
they've worked in government worked in

2040
01:21:24,530 --> 01:21:22,020
clearances worked in the bureaucracy or

2041
01:21:26,689 --> 01:21:24,540
whatnot or the IC or whatever

2042
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,699
they don't look for uaps and UFOs in

2043
01:21:30,169 --> 01:21:28,800
general there's no reporting procedure a

2044
01:21:31,669 --> 01:21:30,179
lot of times there's so much work to do

2045
01:21:33,890 --> 01:21:31,679
and personal life outside of the

2046
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:33,900
military or whatever that nobody wants

2047
01:21:39,410 --> 01:21:35,760
to deal with uaps whether it's the

2048
01:21:41,390 --> 01:21:39,420
stigma or it's because of the amount of

2049
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:41,400
freaking stress and workload everyone's

2050
01:21:46,010 --> 01:21:43,679
under so when this stuff comes around it

2051
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:46,020
may eat up one to eight to twelve hours

2052
01:21:50,330 --> 01:21:48,719
of your time and then you're behind at 1

2053
01:21:52,970 --> 01:21:50,340
to 12 hours of work and everything else

2054
01:21:55,010 --> 01:21:52,980
you have to do so they over classify it

2055
01:21:58,430 --> 01:21:55,020
to sometimes just to make it go away

2056
01:22:01,310 --> 01:21:58,440
they don't report it or somebody an

2057
01:22:03,169 --> 01:22:01,320
admin and some CL decides to bury it so

2058
01:22:04,430 --> 01:22:03,179
then the next seal comes in he has no

2059
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,440
clue what it is because it's stuffed in

2060
01:22:09,290 --> 01:22:06,480
an archive folder somewhere blacked out

2061
01:22:11,770 --> 01:22:09,300
and locked away so when people say

2062
01:22:14,810 --> 01:22:11,780
there's some sort of massive conspiracy

2063
01:22:16,490 --> 01:22:14,820
I've been in it and there really isn't

2064
01:22:18,410 --> 01:22:16,500
there are this stuff is actually more

2065
01:22:19,910 --> 01:22:18,420
common than people think but the problem

2066
01:22:21,290 --> 01:22:19,920
is we can't discuss it because it

2067
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:21,300
relates to our job in our classified

2068
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:22,800
areas which everyone knows that kind of

2069
01:22:26,810 --> 01:22:24,480
stuff exists whether it's nukes is

2070
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:26,820
classified aircraft materials operations

2071
01:22:30,530 --> 01:22:28,260
it could be even Finance related

2072
01:22:32,570 --> 01:22:30,540
whatever we can't talk about it because

2073
01:22:33,890 --> 01:22:32,580
it relates directly or indirectly to it

2074
01:22:35,630 --> 01:22:33,900
thus the whole thing is already

2075
01:22:38,750 --> 01:22:35,640
classified and it's not even related to

2076
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:38,760
UFOs so it's right that there is no

2077
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:40,800
massive crazy conspiracy of the

2078
01:22:44,810 --> 01:22:43,199
government or military maybe very very

2079
01:22:47,209 --> 01:22:44,820
minor few might have some very small

2080
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:47,219
clue what goes on or privy to sightings

2081
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,960
and different things and yeah some of it

2082
01:22:52,189 --> 01:22:50,159
is

2083
01:22:55,130 --> 01:22:52,199
strange some of it's freaking weird and

2084
01:22:57,470 --> 01:22:55,140
we've seen some of it but the problem is

2085
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:57,480
a lot of it's classified now the issue

2086
01:23:02,149 --> 01:22:59,600
is with maelstrom

2087
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:02,159
without me explaining and giving too

2088
01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:04,320
much of what of how the systems work

2089
01:23:10,550 --> 01:23:07,260
there because some of it is classified

2090
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:10,560
for one Robert Salas was a miscellier

2091
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:13,260
the thing is is that there is no missile

2092
01:23:16,850 --> 01:23:15,120
dudes at the silos they're at missile

2093
01:23:17,990 --> 01:23:16,860
alert facilities called Mass which some

2094
01:23:20,030 --> 01:23:18,000
of you are probably familiar with if

2095
01:23:22,850 --> 01:23:20,040
you've research this and they're

2096
01:23:24,890 --> 01:23:22,860
connected to multiple sites kilo Yankee

2097
01:23:26,750 --> 01:23:24,900
whisker one two three four five six

2098
01:23:28,630 --> 01:23:26,760
whatever they're all over miles from

2099
01:23:32,510 --> 01:23:28,640
there in Kansas Oklahoma everywhere

2100
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:32,520
Dakota's Wyoming right now we have Effie

2101
01:23:38,330 --> 01:23:35,760
Warren Minot and Maelstrom uh for the

2102
01:23:40,490 --> 01:23:38,340
most part Stateside so and then you have

2103
01:23:42,890 --> 01:23:40,500
like Barksdale and some other things and

2104
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:42,900
but that's that's a whole other topic uh

2105
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:44,159
that has to do with Ravens and

2106
01:23:50,510 --> 01:23:45,360
transporting other stuff and whatever

2107
01:23:52,669 --> 01:23:50,520
but the thing is is that at maelstrom

2108
01:23:54,290 --> 01:23:52,679
when that system was taken offline

2109
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:54,300
what's very strange is that's the only

2110
01:23:58,130 --> 01:23:56,400
time it really has ever happened where

2111
01:23:59,750 --> 01:23:58,140
they've all been screwed up now is there

2112
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:59,760
maintenance is there things that go on

2113
01:24:03,229 --> 01:24:01,440
yeah it happens is that stuff classified

2114
01:24:04,669 --> 01:24:03,239
unfortunately yeah it is no one really

2115
01:24:07,130 --> 01:24:04,679
will be able to pull those reports how

2116
01:24:08,450 --> 01:24:07,140
that run report got out I have no clue

2117
01:24:09,649 --> 01:24:08,460
because typically those are not supposed

2118
01:24:10,910 --> 01:24:09,659
to get out I don't know the whole

2119
01:24:13,790 --> 01:24:10,920
history behind it

2120
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:13,800
but the fact is is that it's an offline

2121
01:24:17,330 --> 01:24:16,080
system it's intranet it's closed I think

2122
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:17,340
everyone kind of knows that it's all

2123
01:24:21,470 --> 01:24:18,960
underground how these things communicate

2124
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:21,480
and if let's say there's nuclear war and

2125
01:24:25,610 --> 01:24:22,860
the whole government's taken out these

2126
01:24:28,010 --> 01:24:25,620
missiles can launch by themselves with

2127
01:24:30,110 --> 01:24:28,020
just the the people in the missile alert

2128
01:24:31,550 --> 01:24:30,120
facilities or the mass because if a new

2129
01:24:35,149 --> 01:24:31,560
Kit's a math

2130
01:24:36,910 --> 01:24:35,159
right directly hits it uh even with like

2131
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:36,920
let's say a hydrogen bomb or something

2132
01:24:41,450 --> 01:24:39,840
the those two missile ears in that and

2133
01:24:43,189 --> 01:24:41,460
not in The Silo but the map facility

2134
01:24:45,169 --> 01:24:43,199
they're still safe they're still fine

2135
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:45,179
they can live for you know however long

2136
01:24:48,649 --> 01:24:46,800
how many supplies and fuel the things

2137
01:24:50,930 --> 01:24:48,659
they have down there and the thing is

2138
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:50,940
they have backup systems too I can't

2139
01:24:55,070 --> 01:24:53,760
talk about the methodology and the

2140
01:24:57,229 --> 01:24:55,080
technology and procedures they have for

2141
01:24:59,270 --> 01:24:57,239
that but they have backup systems they

2142
01:25:01,130 --> 01:24:59,280
have backup generators they have food

2143
01:25:03,649 --> 01:25:01,140
and water they have tons of stuff down

2144
01:25:06,530 --> 01:25:03,659
there besides it [\h__\h] smells and down

2145
01:25:09,350 --> 01:25:06,540
in those silos not in silos but in the

2146
01:25:12,410 --> 01:25:09,360
those command centers so Silas was not

2147
01:25:14,570 --> 01:25:12,420
there so the palace was do I understand

2148
01:25:16,850 --> 01:25:14,580
correctly um that you're uh you're

2149
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,860
pointing out that uh Salas uh could have

2150
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:18,239
just been mistaken because he wouldn't

2151
01:25:24,770 --> 01:25:21,960
have been directly well here's the thing

2152
01:25:26,810 --> 01:25:24,780
I can't talk about how he knows yeah I

2153
01:25:27,770 --> 01:25:26,820
can't discuss that but I'll tell you

2154
01:25:31,729 --> 01:25:27,780
that

2155
01:25:34,010 --> 01:25:31,739
he doesn't need to be there to know I

2156
01:25:37,070 --> 01:25:34,020
can't explain why or how methodology

2157
01:25:39,770 --> 01:25:37,080
technology whatever but he doesn't need

2158
01:25:42,890 --> 01:25:39,780
to physically be there to know what the

2159
01:25:44,750 --> 01:25:42,900
heck is going on now again I can't

2160
01:25:46,850 --> 01:25:44,760
discuss it that's an NDA thing I can't

2161
01:25:49,010 --> 01:25:46,860
break that but

2162
01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:49,020
you don't need to you don't need to know

2163
01:25:53,209 --> 01:25:51,360
even back in when I was serving they

2164
01:25:55,790 --> 01:25:53,219
don't need to be there we don't need to

2165
01:25:57,290 --> 01:25:55,800
be there there's tons of sensors all

2166
01:26:00,169 --> 01:25:57,300
over there but the thing is they're all

2167
01:26:02,030 --> 01:26:00,179
classified and they're the government

2168
01:26:03,830 --> 01:26:02,040
has some pretty advanced stuff when it

2169
01:26:06,050 --> 01:26:03,840
comes to these kind of sensors and this

2170
01:26:09,290 --> 01:26:06,060
data on these missile sites

2171
01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:09,300
so that's one thing is that it doesn't

2172
01:26:14,330 --> 01:26:11,040
necessarily have to be there they get

2173
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,340
sensor data and the data can be seismic

2174
01:26:18,169 --> 01:26:16,320
it can be sound it can be all sorts of

2175
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:18,179
infrared it can be all sorts of stuff

2176
01:26:22,129 --> 01:26:19,440
they have there and they have sensors

2177
01:26:23,330 --> 01:26:22,139
they're going back to the 50s 60s 70s

2178
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:23,340
when they started making these things

2179
01:26:28,669 --> 01:26:25,020
and they still have them and they get

2180
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,679
more advanced as time goes on so yeah he

2181
01:26:31,790 --> 01:26:30,480
doesn't necessarily need to be there um

2182
01:26:32,930 --> 01:26:31,800
it doesn't have to be Vision it can be

2183
01:26:34,970 --> 01:26:32,940
all sorts of things that they can pick

2184
01:26:37,610 --> 01:26:34,980
up and they can tell the difference if

2185
01:26:39,470 --> 01:26:37,620
there's like somebody walking via some

2186
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:39,480
rabbit via swind or whatever they can

2187
01:26:46,129 --> 01:26:42,960
pick up all that stuff now for let's say

2188
01:26:47,629 --> 01:26:46,139
the um the the security forces or

2189
01:26:50,209 --> 01:26:47,639
security police are out there so

2190
01:26:52,970 --> 01:26:50,219
Security Police generally were the ones

2191
01:26:55,070 --> 01:26:52,980
that were out near the bases security

2192
01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:55,080
forces were the ones that were out in

2193
01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:56,760
the missile Fields now they combined it

2194
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:58,320
and now it's Security Forces I think

2195
01:27:02,030 --> 01:26:59,760
that was around the 1990s they combined

2196
01:27:03,590 --> 01:27:02,040
the afsc or called Air Force specialty

2197
01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:03,600
code uh but there used to be two

2198
01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:06,420
different career Fields so the security

2199
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:08,340
forces guys that went out there I

2200
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:10,380
believe I don't know if it was a fire

2201
01:27:14,629 --> 01:27:12,239
team or if it was a Sentry team that

2202
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:14,639
went out if it was Patrol a maintenance

2203
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:17,520
I know it was at night so I imagine it

2204
01:27:20,209 --> 01:27:18,719
was not a maintenance team because

2205
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:20,219
there's no red horse Engineers that went

2206
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,360
out there

2207
01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:23,040
um so I imagine it was a century that

2208
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:25,440
was going out that we check station at

2209
01:27:30,290 --> 01:27:28,800
the site uh whatever so the thing is

2210
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:30,300
that this is completely an offline

2211
01:27:34,129 --> 01:27:32,880
intranet system and they have backup

2212
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:34,139
ways of basically how they can

2213
01:27:37,790 --> 01:27:35,760
communicate if one ends up going down

2214
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:37,800
they don't just have one line and it

2215
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:39,840
breaks and you can't and the thing is is

2216
01:27:45,050 --> 01:27:42,060
that you can't just run and manage all

2217
01:27:47,629 --> 01:27:45,060
the sites just from one Silo they have

2218
01:27:49,250 --> 01:27:47,639
security apparatuses around that where

2219
01:27:52,490 --> 01:27:49,260
they can't they can't [\h__\h] with that

2220
01:27:55,490 --> 01:27:52,500
it's impossible so the fact is that

2221
01:27:56,570 --> 01:27:55,500
it's very strange out of even if a UFO

2222
01:28:00,410 --> 01:27:56,580
was there

2223
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:00,420
and screwed with that one specific silo

2224
01:28:06,530 --> 01:28:03,600
you can't necessarily break all the

2225
01:28:08,689 --> 01:28:06,540
others or break the missile alert

2226
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,699
facility that is not a hundred yards or

2227
01:28:13,729 --> 01:28:10,800
300 yards or one or two three miles

2228
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:13,739
you're talking about 50 to 100 miles

2229
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:16,880
sometimes away from some of the farthest

2230
01:28:21,530 --> 01:28:20,280
uh silos from math facilities and I

2231
01:28:23,629 --> 01:28:21,540
don't know the exact distance with

2232
01:28:24,890 --> 01:28:23,639
theirs because they they've changed and

2233
01:28:26,870 --> 01:28:24,900
they've been building more and different

2234
01:28:28,729 --> 01:28:26,880
things over the years and closing them

2235
01:28:31,490 --> 01:28:28,739
down so I'm not exactly sure of like the

2236
01:28:34,250 --> 01:28:31,500
geography on them but you're talking

2237
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:34,260
about if that is the case shutting down

2238
01:28:39,530 --> 01:28:36,239
and screwing with

2239
01:28:42,110 --> 01:28:39,540
a math facility Command Center

2240
01:28:44,930 --> 01:28:42,120
and a bunch of other silos Network to

2241
01:28:48,649 --> 01:28:44,940
that and you are anywhere from possibly

2242
01:28:50,390 --> 01:28:48,659
20 to maybe a hundred miles away and

2243
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:50,400
these silos are all could be anywhere

2244
01:28:55,550 --> 01:28:53,280
from 10 to maybe 100 miles away from

2245
01:28:58,330 --> 01:28:55,560
each other so and they all got shut down

2246
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:58,340
at the same time and the thing is that

2247
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:00,960
the tech when they installed it and all

2248
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:03,360
the stuff back in the 50s and 60s that

2249
01:29:07,490 --> 01:29:05,040
was about as Cutting Edge as you could

2250
01:29:10,189 --> 01:29:07,500
possibly freaking get the missiles have

2251
01:29:12,110 --> 01:29:10,199
been breaking like crazy and had massive

2252
01:29:14,990 --> 01:29:12,120
maintenance issues starting in like

2253
01:29:17,629 --> 01:29:15,000
later on after they were at 20 30 40

2254
01:29:20,450 --> 01:29:17,639
year shelf life so in the 80s 90s and

2255
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:20,460
2000s they had the they were trying to

2256
01:29:24,290 --> 01:29:22,560
modernize the technology in advance that

2257
01:29:26,270 --> 01:29:24,300
like you've spent how many billions of

2258
01:29:28,850 --> 01:29:26,280
dollars recently to try to upgrade it

2259
01:29:31,729 --> 01:29:28,860
because it was too old back in the 50s

2260
01:29:33,350 --> 01:29:31,739
and 60s it was absolute Cutting Edge so

2261
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:33,360
it was completely bizarre that this

2262
01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:35,280
whole system completely broke and failed

2263
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:36,960
all of a sudden and that stuff was

2264
01:29:41,330 --> 01:29:39,120
literally brand new well that's again

2265
01:29:43,010 --> 01:29:41,340
even weird part about it let's dig into

2266
01:29:44,270 --> 01:29:43,020
that none of it make just none of it

2267
01:29:45,470 --> 01:29:44,280
makes sense at all it just isn't

2268
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:45,480
something this is not supposed to happen

2269
01:29:51,830 --> 01:29:49,199
well I was uh pointing out okay so I'll

2270
01:29:54,530 --> 01:29:51,840
I would Grant uh Robert Salas something

2271
01:29:56,450 --> 01:29:54,540
happened the nukes got shut down and he

2272
01:29:58,550 --> 01:29:56,460
got the radio call from the security

2273
01:30:00,290 --> 01:29:58,560
team saying if he was crazy he would

2274
01:30:03,290 --> 01:30:00,300
have lost his clearance they don't mess

2275
01:30:06,590 --> 01:30:03,300
around with PRP and clearance tsscially

2276
01:30:08,450 --> 01:30:06,600
he would have lost his plan but let's uh

2277
01:30:11,149 --> 01:30:08,460
let's just look at the the pure

2278
01:30:13,669 --> 01:30:11,159
observations like Okay so let's say all

2279
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:13,679
of the observations were correct and

2280
01:30:20,030 --> 01:30:16,080
I'll Grant him that fully when we move

2281
01:30:22,669 --> 01:30:20,040
into interpretation it was a UFO that's

2282
01:30:25,490 --> 01:30:22,679
quite a claim and I'm not opposed to uh

2283
01:30:27,709 --> 01:30:25,500
that possibility but because of

2284
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:27,719
documents that stylist himself foiled

2285
01:30:33,169 --> 01:30:30,480
about the subject in addition to the son

2286
01:30:35,149 --> 01:30:33,179
of the commander he was uh reporting to

2287
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:35,159
at the time who was very uh fixated on

2288
01:30:38,570 --> 01:30:36,900
this case because of the allegations

2289
01:30:39,890 --> 01:30:38,580
around his father in relation to it

2290
01:30:43,010 --> 01:30:39,900
James

2291
01:30:45,950 --> 01:30:43,020
look thank you yeah we have uh evidence

2292
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:45,960
that there was taken seriously by the

2293
01:30:49,729 --> 01:30:48,000
government they did investigate it they

2294
01:30:51,649 --> 01:30:49,739
did uh identify the issues and

2295
01:30:53,990 --> 01:30:51,659
electromatic magnetic uh feedback

2296
01:30:56,209 --> 01:30:54,000
problem and then they they claim they

2297
01:30:59,090 --> 01:30:56,219
solved it uh that a particular issue and

2298
01:31:00,770 --> 01:30:59,100
now we know that uh radio uh

2299
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:00,780
Transmissions aren't allowed in nuclear

2300
01:31:04,370 --> 01:31:02,880
missile silos anymore because they can

2301
01:31:05,810 --> 01:31:04,380
create these strange effects where

2302
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:05,820
sometimes the signal can bounce around

2303
01:31:10,330 --> 01:31:08,639
and get all spun up and interfere with

2304
01:31:12,229 --> 01:31:10,340
things so they use infrasound

2305
01:31:14,030 --> 01:31:12,239
Transmissions so that there is an

2306
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:14,040
electromagnetic interference possibility

2307
01:31:18,350 --> 01:31:16,560
anymore so with all of those things in

2308
01:31:20,330 --> 01:31:18,360
place so if that doesn't that that

2309
01:31:22,430 --> 01:31:20,340
doesn't make any sense because if he's

2310
01:31:24,530 --> 01:31:22,440
talking about the site the security

2311
01:31:26,750 --> 01:31:24,540
police and it wasn't just one or two it

2312
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:26,760
was several of them we aren't making

2313
01:31:30,410 --> 01:31:29,040
sense no you're not you're not making

2314
01:31:32,990 --> 01:31:30,420
sense because you think all this

2315
01:31:35,870 --> 01:31:33,000
happened at The Silo and I'm telling you

2316
01:31:36,830 --> 01:31:35,880
that it doesn't work all right I I don't

2317
01:31:38,930 --> 01:31:36,840
like that

2318
01:31:41,390 --> 01:31:38,940
um we're just gonna pause that there I

2319
01:31:43,490 --> 01:31:41,400
think that it's important in having

2320
01:31:46,129 --> 01:31:43,500
these conversations that we approach

2321
01:31:49,790 --> 01:31:46,139
them with the perspective that we're

2322
01:31:51,890 --> 01:31:49,800
trying to engage in good faith and

2323
01:31:54,709 --> 01:31:51,900
I you know I would be very happy to

2324
01:31:58,129 --> 01:31:54,719
continue that except uh for the fact

2325
01:32:00,169 --> 01:31:58,139
that uh we don't have a mutual respect

2326
01:32:01,430 --> 01:32:00,179
right now and maybe we can return to it

2327
01:32:04,729 --> 01:32:01,440
but I don't think that that was a good

2328
01:32:06,709 --> 01:32:04,739
way to continue that that I'll just say

2329
01:32:09,890 --> 01:32:06,719
that the thing about the Maelstrom

2330
01:32:12,410 --> 01:32:09,900
incident is that it's really

2331
01:32:14,390 --> 01:32:12,420
two separate things two separate stories

2332
01:32:15,709 --> 01:32:14,400
that people kind of just like combine

2333
01:32:17,750 --> 01:32:15,719
together and think it's the same thing

2334
01:32:19,790 --> 01:32:17,760
there is no doubt there was an echo

2335
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,800
fight shutdown that shut down 10 or so

2336
01:32:24,290 --> 01:32:22,080
whatever missiles like that's in the

2337
01:32:26,990 --> 01:32:24,300
records that's in the the sac Base

2338
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:27,000
history records and

2339
01:32:31,610 --> 01:32:29,520
salus initially thought he was part of

2340
01:32:33,530 --> 01:32:31,620
that shutdown then he found out he

2341
01:32:34,910 --> 01:32:33,540
wasn't actually working that time and he

2342
01:32:36,890 --> 01:32:34,920
wasn't at that place and he had to

2343
01:32:39,229 --> 01:32:36,900
revise his story and we revised it that

2344
01:32:41,390 --> 01:32:39,239
he was at November flight instead of uh

2345
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:41,400
Echo flight and then it became Oscar

2346
01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:43,920
flight and so there's the shutdown we

2347
01:32:48,169 --> 01:32:46,199
know happened and then there's Robert

2348
01:32:50,209 --> 01:32:48,179
salas's claimed event that allegedly it

2349
01:32:51,770 --> 01:32:50,219
happened two weeks later because he had

2350
01:32:54,110 --> 01:32:51,780
to change the date because he found out

2351
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:54,120
he wasn't part of the echo flight which

2352
01:32:57,470 --> 01:32:55,920
is what which is what all the records

2353
01:32:59,090 --> 01:32:57,480
are from all the records are from Echo

2354
01:33:01,610 --> 01:32:59,100
fight that didn't have anything to do

2355
01:33:04,129 --> 01:33:01,620
with Solace Solace claims it happened a

2356
01:33:05,450 --> 01:33:04,139
second time like two weeks later at

2357
01:33:07,550 --> 01:33:05,460
Oscar flight

2358
01:33:08,930 --> 01:33:07,560
and so it's a completely separate story

2359
01:33:10,669 --> 01:33:08,940
I don't think anybody's debating that

2360
01:33:12,350 --> 01:33:10,679
something happened at Echo flight

2361
01:33:15,350 --> 01:33:12,360
whether that had anything to do with

2362
01:33:17,570 --> 01:33:15,360
UFOs if you look at Tim Hebert's site

2363
01:33:19,550 --> 01:33:17,580
you'll you'll see that again he was a

2364
01:33:22,490 --> 01:33:19,560
Sac missile Commander at Malmstrom in

2365
01:33:24,169 --> 01:33:22,500
the early 70s that it was actually that

2366
01:33:26,209 --> 01:33:24,179
the security people used to joke about

2367
01:33:28,430 --> 01:33:26,219
UFO sightings all the time and he said

2368
01:33:30,110 --> 01:33:28,440
particularly in the 60s that used to be

2369
01:33:33,169 --> 01:33:30,120
an ongoing joke between the security

2370
01:33:35,390 --> 01:33:33,179
personnel and whatnot on those Sac bases

2371
01:33:38,510 --> 01:33:35,400
that they would joke about UFOs flying

2372
01:33:41,890 --> 01:33:38,520
around everywhere and it was a joke and

2373
01:33:44,570 --> 01:33:41,900
again and then to make it for to make

2374
01:33:47,090 --> 01:33:44,580
solace's case a UFO case they bring up

2375
01:33:49,010 --> 01:33:47,100
things like in Belt Montana you know 50

2376
01:33:52,010 --> 01:33:49,020
or however many miles that way somebody

2377
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:52,020
saw a UFO that week or that some other

2378
01:33:56,629 --> 01:33:55,199
guy uh you know dis and saw a UFO and

2379
01:34:01,250 --> 01:33:56,639
they try and take the fact that somebody

2380
01:34:02,689 --> 01:34:01,260
saw a UFO nearby with some shutdown that

2381
01:34:04,370 --> 01:34:02,699
must mean the UFO has something to do

2382
01:34:05,990 --> 01:34:04,380
with the shutdown and there's just no

2383
01:34:08,209 --> 01:34:06,000
evidence tie those two two things

2384
01:34:10,610 --> 01:34:08,219
together we know there's a shutdown we

2385
01:34:12,470 --> 01:34:10,620
don't know Solace had anything to do

2386
01:34:14,330 --> 01:34:12,480
with the shutdown and if they mentioned

2387
01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:14,340
an Oscar if they mentioned an echo fight

2388
01:34:17,270 --> 01:34:15,659
shut down in the records why wouldn't

2389
01:34:20,229 --> 01:34:17,280
they mention Oscar that happened two

2390
01:34:24,709 --> 01:34:23,030
so songs in the comments and yeah it was

2391
01:34:27,229 --> 01:34:24,719
it was getting a little heated

2392
01:34:29,570 --> 01:34:27,239
um a

2393
01:34:32,330 --> 01:34:29,580
I do think it's important to keep in

2394
01:34:34,070 --> 01:34:32,340
mind we all want to discuss and talk

2395
01:34:36,110 --> 01:34:34,080
about these subjects

2396
01:34:38,510 --> 01:34:36,120
um but he is saying that it didn't

2397
01:34:40,370 --> 01:34:38,520
happen at The Silo that's that's sort of

2398
01:34:42,350 --> 01:34:40,380
what the point he seems to keep harping

2399
01:34:44,629 --> 01:34:42,360
on is that basically the geography here

2400
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:44,639
is incorrect like what's being discussed

2401
01:34:50,209 --> 01:34:47,040
around the geography is wrong

2402
01:34:51,950 --> 01:34:50,219
I'd be I like I don't I didn't uh ban

2403
01:34:53,709 --> 01:34:51,960
him he's saying oh yeah he's not banned

2404
01:34:56,270 --> 01:34:53,719
you can jump back on the stream if yeah

2405
01:34:58,669 --> 01:34:56,280
like yeah your mother doesn't rejoin

2406
01:34:59,330 --> 01:34:58,679
yeah yeah please share it

2407
01:35:01,910 --> 01:34:59,340
um

2408
01:35:02,930 --> 01:35:01,920
but yeah you just got muted because

2409
01:35:05,270 --> 01:35:02,940
um

2410
01:35:07,490 --> 01:35:05,280
we can't be just uh accusing each other

2411
01:35:09,890 --> 01:35:07,500
and not making sense not making sense or

2412
01:35:13,310 --> 01:35:09,900
whatever like this is all good faith

2413
01:35:14,570 --> 01:35:13,320
um and I think also too and this is one

2414
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,580
of those things me and my brother used

2415
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:16,320
to fight growing up I always used to so

2416
01:35:19,550 --> 01:35:18,060
he's used to piss me off it kind of

2417
01:35:21,290 --> 01:35:19,560
still does as an adult but like let's

2418
01:35:23,570 --> 01:35:21,300
also we should be able to agree to

2419
01:35:25,669 --> 01:35:23,580
disagree on some stuff right like this

2420
01:35:27,890 --> 01:35:25,679
is not the cure for cancer

2421
01:35:28,850 --> 01:35:27,900
um so yeah so let's let's bring song

2422
01:35:31,910 --> 01:35:28,860
back on

2423
01:35:34,189 --> 01:35:31,920
um dude go ahead and uh let's let's just

2424
01:35:36,050 --> 01:35:34,199
keep it up for a while yeah yeah if you

2425
01:35:37,490 --> 01:35:36,060
guys boot me off and remove me when I'm

2426
01:35:38,930 --> 01:35:37,500
trying to State actual facts and

2427
01:35:40,970 --> 01:35:38,940
information I'm not going to come back

2428
01:35:42,590 --> 01:35:40,980
on I'm trying to do some kind of

2429
01:35:43,729 --> 01:35:42,600
disclosure and information but if you

2430
01:35:45,590 --> 01:35:43,739
guys want to

2431
01:35:47,090 --> 01:35:45,600
run your little show in your bubble you

2432
01:35:48,770 --> 01:35:47,100
can do that but I'm giving you real

2433
01:35:50,570 --> 01:35:48,780
information about how some of this works

2434
01:35:52,490 --> 01:35:50,580
without breaking my NDA you can take

2435
01:35:54,050 --> 01:35:52,500
that with a grain of salt but I'm

2436
01:35:56,990 --> 01:35:54,060
telling you the geography of how you're

2437
01:35:58,370 --> 01:35:57,000
explaining it is not correct because

2438
01:35:59,510 --> 01:35:58,380
I've worked in the field and I

2439
01:36:01,729 --> 01:35:59,520
understand how this works and this is

2440
01:36:03,530 --> 01:36:01,739
not skepticism it's not UAP it's tin

2441
01:36:05,450 --> 01:36:03,540
foil hat this is just stuff that's even

2442
01:36:06,770 --> 01:36:05,460
Declassified but unless you've worked in

2443
01:36:10,450 --> 01:36:06,780
the field researched and looked on

2444
01:36:15,229 --> 01:36:13,129
how you're explaining it is not correct

2445
01:36:17,270 --> 01:36:15,239
on the geography and the locations and

2446
01:36:22,689 --> 01:36:17,280
how this stuff works and it's not

2447
01:36:27,530 --> 01:36:24,950
we also do have other people waiting to

2448
01:36:29,149 --> 01:36:27,540
get on the stream so no you did you said

2449
01:36:30,350 --> 01:36:29,159
you know how you were explaining it

2450
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:30,360
wasn't correct and I was trying to

2451
01:36:34,010 --> 01:36:31,920
correct you guys so it's accurate

2452
01:36:36,050 --> 01:36:34,020
because you're researchers so I'm trying

2453
01:36:37,610 --> 01:36:36,060
to give the real world first first

2454
01:36:39,890 --> 01:36:37,620
person information about and you can

2455
01:36:43,910 --> 01:36:39,900
even research it but it's hard to find

2456
01:36:45,770 --> 01:36:43,920
this info if right so we

2457
01:36:48,410 --> 01:36:45,780
took it on the stream we'd love to hear

2458
01:36:50,090 --> 01:36:48,420
you basically summarize or provide some

2459
01:36:51,649 --> 01:36:50,100
scaffolding here

2460
01:36:55,070 --> 01:36:51,659
um and that's what I was trying to do

2461
01:36:56,510 --> 01:36:55,080
simply wrap up so go ahead that's what I

2462
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:56,520
was trying to do if you don't kick me

2463
01:37:00,950 --> 01:36:58,800
off while I'm explaining so the thing is

2464
01:37:02,270 --> 01:37:00,960
is that these are closed intranet

2465
01:37:04,129 --> 01:37:02,280
systems if you'll listen without

2466
01:37:06,649 --> 01:37:04,139
smirking or laughing at me thinking I'm

2467
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:06,659
just trying to argue I'm giving yourself

2468
01:37:09,890 --> 01:37:07,920
saying that's what you're trying to do

2469
01:37:11,209 --> 01:37:09,900
four times but you told me but tell me

2470
01:37:14,870 --> 01:37:11,219
what's going on

2471
01:37:16,669 --> 01:37:14,880
you were saying is that at the silos at

2472
01:37:18,290 --> 01:37:16,679
the missiles it was shut down and

2473
01:37:20,990 --> 01:37:18,300
because of

2474
01:37:23,450 --> 01:37:21,000
um electromagicism and the logic boards

2475
01:37:26,629 --> 01:37:23,460
got fried and all that at kilo whatever

2476
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:26,639
at this flight and you're you're mixing

2477
01:37:32,270 --> 01:37:28,320
this you're fixing flights and you're

2478
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:32,280
mixing uh Silo sights up you're mixing a

2479
01:37:36,770 --> 01:37:34,320
math facility sites up you're mixing

2480
01:37:38,090 --> 01:37:36,780
them up on the names and classifications

2481
01:37:39,830 --> 01:37:38,100
because a lot of people don't understand

2482
01:37:41,090 --> 01:37:39,840
intricately how this works and it's

2483
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:41,100
really confusing unless you haven't

2484
01:37:45,410 --> 01:37:42,960
worked in the field so let me explain

2485
01:37:46,910 --> 01:37:45,420
let me explain is that their missile

2486
01:37:49,550 --> 01:37:46,920
alert facilities and the audience gets

2487
01:37:51,110 --> 01:37:49,560
it too the the missile ear dudes and

2488
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:51,120
Robert Salas was never physically there

2489
01:37:56,209 --> 01:37:54,239
miscellir guys don't go to silos because

2490
01:37:59,870 --> 01:37:56,219
they it's all segmented called special

2491
01:38:02,209 --> 01:37:59,880
compartment enough information SCI so

2492
01:38:03,770 --> 01:38:02,219
Security Guys only know their thing red

2493
01:38:05,570 --> 01:38:03,780
horse Engineers only know theirs

2494
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:05,580
miscelliers only know theirs and we only

2495
01:38:08,930 --> 01:38:07,440
go to specific locations to our duties

2496
01:38:10,850 --> 01:38:08,940
and nobody has a clue anybody else does

2497
01:38:13,910 --> 01:38:10,860
unless the CEO knows that's for the

2498
01:38:17,090 --> 01:38:13,920
Squadron Commander now with that known

2499
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:17,100
he doesn't go to the silos but he has

2500
01:38:21,770 --> 01:38:18,960
abilities to know what goes on and they

2501
01:38:23,090 --> 01:38:21,780
can't discuss the methodology or the

2502
01:38:25,850 --> 01:38:23,100
technology that they use there because

2503
01:38:29,090 --> 01:38:25,860
that's classified still but the thing is

2504
01:38:31,370 --> 01:38:29,100
is that there were multiple not one or

2505
01:38:32,169 --> 01:38:31,380
two there were multiple Witnesses and

2506
01:38:34,610 --> 01:38:32,179
the thing is you have to understand

2507
01:38:36,169 --> 01:38:34,620
nobody lost their security clearance now

2508
01:38:38,689 --> 01:38:36,179
if they reported this kind of crap in

2509
01:38:40,430 --> 01:38:38,699
the 50s 60s you usually they would have

2510
01:38:42,229 --> 01:38:40,440
gone straight to a shrink straight to a

2511
01:38:44,149 --> 01:38:42,239
doctor and

2512
01:38:46,610 --> 01:38:44,159
if they had no evidence it was something

2513
01:38:47,870 --> 01:38:46,620
High strangeness anomaly I guarantee

2514
01:38:49,129 --> 01:38:47,880
they would have been kicked out they

2515
01:38:50,570 --> 01:38:49,139
would have lost their clearance and this

2516
01:38:53,510 --> 01:38:50,580
happens more than you even know it's

2517
01:38:54,950 --> 01:38:53,520
just not publicized now with the weird

2518
01:38:56,689 --> 01:38:54,960
Maelstrom incident

2519
01:38:58,729 --> 01:38:56,699
it's an intranet closed system and

2520
01:39:01,310 --> 01:38:58,739
please don't interrupt me about that you

2521
01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:01,320
can't shut off all those missiles from

2522
01:39:05,510 --> 01:39:03,360
that UFO from that location which is

2523
01:39:07,669 --> 01:39:05,520
just weird it was brand new technology

2524
01:39:09,110 --> 01:39:07,679
that was very Advanced they didn't these

2525
01:39:11,750 --> 01:39:09,120
things did not start breaking having

2526
01:39:13,430 --> 01:39:11,760
maintenance issues till about 20 30 40

2527
01:39:15,709 --> 01:39:13,440
years later after they won the ball

2528
01:39:18,770 --> 01:39:15,719
that's completely incorrect we've spent

2529
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:18,780
almost 20 minutes on this so can you

2530
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,880
please please provide a like a 30 second

2531
01:39:25,189 --> 01:39:22,560
summary for

2532
01:39:26,450 --> 01:39:25,199
me if Yvonne to joiners

2533
01:39:28,850 --> 01:39:26,460
the

2534
01:39:30,530 --> 01:39:28,860
if you want to think about an answer to

2535
01:39:31,910 --> 01:39:30,540
be skeptical to prove your guy's point

2536
01:39:34,189 --> 01:39:31,920
and that's all you want for 30 seconds

2537
01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:34,199
it doesn't work that way because most of

2538
01:39:37,729 --> 01:39:35,760
the stuff you've been discussing in

2539
01:39:40,010 --> 01:39:37,739
layman terms about how actually this

2540
01:39:41,810 --> 01:39:40,020
works at missile alert facilities the

2541
01:39:44,330 --> 01:39:41,820
silos how miscelliers work security

2542
01:39:45,950 --> 01:39:44,340
afford to squats Engineers you're not

2543
01:39:48,290 --> 01:39:45,960
correct about any of it and you're

2544
01:39:51,590 --> 01:39:48,300
mixing up kilos and flights and Sierra

2545
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:51,600
and whiskey it doesn't work that way

2546
01:39:55,010 --> 01:39:53,280
because they have different numbers and

2547
01:39:58,390 --> 01:39:55,020
classifications and they alternate and

2548
01:40:02,750 --> 01:40:01,070
you a summary a statement that you're

2549
01:40:04,610 --> 01:40:02,760
just hit your point of contention is

2550
01:40:06,470 --> 01:40:04,620
that you don't believe that accurate

2551
01:40:08,149 --> 01:40:06,480
information is currently being discussed

2552
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:08,159
around the Maelstrom incident is that

2553
01:40:12,110 --> 01:40:10,080
correct about half the information

2554
01:40:14,209 --> 01:40:12,120
you're discussing when it comes to this

2555
01:40:15,169 --> 01:40:14,219
the specific details of how this stuff

2556
01:40:17,750 --> 01:40:15,179
actually works that's already

2557
01:40:20,030 --> 01:40:17,760
Declassified unless you've worked in the

2558
01:40:22,490 --> 01:40:20,040
field unless you've talked to actual

2559
01:40:24,850 --> 01:40:22,500
miscelliers that are retired you talk to

2560
01:40:26,810 --> 01:40:24,860
Red Horse Engineers

2561
01:40:28,689 --> 01:40:26,820
you're not going to get the correct

2562
01:40:31,189 --> 01:40:28,699
Industries I'm

2563
01:40:32,510 --> 01:40:31,199
all right let's look dude thanks so much

2564
01:40:34,990 --> 01:40:32,520
for joining what you were explaining

2565
01:40:37,370 --> 01:40:35,000
about the silos and

2566
01:40:39,110 --> 01:40:37,380
all right all right so

2567
01:40:40,550 --> 01:40:39,120
um yeah that went about five times as

2568
01:40:43,070 --> 01:40:40,560
long as it needed to

2569
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,080
um brevity is the soul of wit and uh the

2570
01:40:48,169 --> 01:40:45,360
soul of good storytelling so all that

2571
01:40:51,229 --> 01:40:48,179
said let's get to lisma on the stream

2572
01:40:53,149 --> 01:40:51,239
um I have them waiting backstage

2573
01:40:54,410 --> 01:40:53,159
hey what's going on welcome to Invisible

2574
01:40:57,350 --> 01:40:54,420
night school

2575
01:41:01,310 --> 01:40:57,360
hi can y'all hear me we can how are you

2576
01:41:04,010 --> 01:41:01,320
I'm doing well it's a wonderful show and

2577
01:41:06,470 --> 01:41:04,020
I just really wanted to say just like I

2578
01:41:09,530 --> 01:41:06,480
think this is definitely one of the best

2579
01:41:11,390 --> 01:41:09,540
episodes so far

2580
01:41:13,970 --> 01:41:11,400
but you're watching us go through our

2581
01:41:17,450 --> 01:41:13,980
Growing Pains of having to contend with

2582
01:41:19,070 --> 01:41:17,460
um Lively audience members yeah and

2583
01:41:21,110 --> 01:41:19,080
that's good because that means that it

2584
01:41:22,490 --> 01:41:21,120
it's only bound to get better my

2585
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:22,500
favorite episode is somewhere in the

2586
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:31,129
[Music]

2587
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:33,600
uh I don't know if you know them but I

2588
01:41:38,629 --> 01:41:35,760
know I know that you're into John hoops

2589
01:41:40,310 --> 01:41:38,639
and Jason colabito

2590
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:40,320
um and I was wondering if you could talk

2591
01:41:46,910 --> 01:41:44,400
about like uh race and decolonization in

2592
01:41:49,790 --> 01:41:46,920
the context of things like like ufology

2593
01:41:52,729 --> 01:41:49,800
like oh I I am [\h__\h] here for this

2594
01:41:55,850 --> 01:41:52,739
question come on Jeff like what just you

2595
01:42:01,430 --> 01:41:57,770
um I mean I don't know so much about

2596
01:42:03,530 --> 01:42:01,440
about ufology but particularly when you

2597
01:42:05,390 --> 01:42:03,540
get into things like Ancient Aliens

2598
01:42:08,030 --> 01:42:05,400
claims when people try and bring ufology

2599
01:42:10,990 --> 01:42:08,040
back to like the ancient days and you

2600
01:42:13,129 --> 01:42:11,000
start basically

2601
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:13,139
dismissing the accomplishments of

2602
01:42:17,270 --> 01:42:15,360
indigenous peoples and groups and

2603
01:42:20,930 --> 01:42:17,280
pretending like it either had to be some

2604
01:42:23,510 --> 01:42:20,940
Advanced Lost Civilization or aliens or

2605
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:23,520
I think that's extremely problematic and

2606
01:42:28,910 --> 01:42:25,679
that that comes up and the thing is is

2607
01:42:31,490 --> 01:42:28,920
there's a big mix between ufology and

2608
01:42:34,430 --> 01:42:31,500
pseudo-archeology and Ancient Aliens

2609
01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:34,440
like this stuff overlaps like big time

2610
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:35,760
and that's why you see people like Jason

2611
01:42:39,950 --> 01:42:38,159
colavita like talking about all these

2612
01:42:42,050 --> 01:42:39,960
different kind of topics and the stuff

2613
01:42:44,209 --> 01:42:42,060
that all interests me very you know I

2614
01:42:47,090 --> 01:42:44,219
have a lot of interest as well

2615
01:42:49,729 --> 01:42:47,100
um it's it's uh

2616
01:42:51,950 --> 01:42:49,739
there are some actually good papers

2617
01:42:54,050 --> 01:42:51,960
there's a guy named Ryan Cook that's an

2618
01:42:56,810 --> 01:42:54,060
anthropologist that addresses the issue

2619
01:42:59,030 --> 01:42:56,820
of race and ufology

2620
01:43:01,550 --> 01:42:59,040
um I will try and post a link to that

2621
01:43:03,229 --> 01:43:01,560
paper after the show

2622
01:43:05,570 --> 01:43:03,239
um but

2623
01:43:09,109 --> 01:43:05,580
yeah it's it's uh

2624
01:43:12,890 --> 01:43:09,119
the problem is people want mystery they

2625
01:43:16,129 --> 01:43:12,900
want something you know truly remarkable

2626
01:43:18,290 --> 01:43:16,139
and anomalous and when sometimes you

2627
01:43:21,470 --> 01:43:18,300
know there's just explanations when it

2628
01:43:23,270 --> 01:43:21,480
comes to things like pyramids mouths you

2629
01:43:25,609 --> 01:43:23,280
don't need aliens you don't need lost

2630
01:43:28,370 --> 01:43:25,619
races or civilizations you don't need

2631
01:43:31,910 --> 01:43:28,380
any of that stuff and I think it's wrong

2632
01:43:34,729 --> 01:43:31,920
to even promote those kind of theories

2633
01:43:36,590 --> 01:43:34,739
um I think you're disenfranchising you

2634
01:43:39,590 --> 01:43:36,600
know indigenous legacies and that's

2635
01:43:42,770 --> 01:43:39,600
that's that's not right I just finished

2636
01:43:45,109 --> 01:43:42,780
reading colavito's mom build a book uh

2637
01:43:47,090 --> 01:43:45,119
yesterday I've actually listened to the

2638
01:43:49,370 --> 01:43:47,100
audiobook like three or four times uh

2639
01:43:50,930 --> 01:43:49,380
I'm a big Call of Duty fan I've got like

2640
01:43:53,209 --> 01:43:50,940
everything he's ever published like

2641
01:43:55,310 --> 01:43:53,219
going myself over there including his

2642
01:43:57,350 --> 01:43:55,320
little tiny little like pamp the

2643
01:43:59,689 --> 01:43:57,360
booklets that he's put out on things

2644
01:44:02,209 --> 01:43:59,699
like theosophy and he has one called

2645
01:44:05,330 --> 01:44:02,219
pyramidious about kind of idiotic

2646
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:05,340
theories about the pyramids he started

2647
01:44:11,149 --> 01:44:08,639
out as uh what is it a moderator uh on a

2648
01:44:13,010 --> 01:44:11,159
forum of kind of like 40 and stuff isn't

2649
01:44:14,689 --> 01:44:13,020
that right like his backstory do we know

2650
01:44:16,250 --> 01:44:14,699
this I saw somebody just mentioned that

2651
01:44:17,689 --> 01:44:16,260
yesterday that's the first I'd heard of

2652
01:44:19,790 --> 01:44:17,699
that I didn't know that you know I think

2653
01:44:21,950 --> 01:44:19,800
that was me on the Discord so I'm gonna

2654
01:44:24,590 --> 01:44:21,960
have to fact check that but I'm sure I

2655
01:44:27,169 --> 01:44:24,600
saw that somewhere but yeah let's not uh

2656
01:44:29,810 --> 01:44:27,179
let's not repeat that then

2657
01:44:31,910 --> 01:44:29,820
anyway yeah I like really enjoy colavito

2658
01:44:34,070 --> 01:44:31,920
as well um he's a little snarky

2659
01:44:35,290 --> 01:44:34,080
sometimes but uh you know that's okay I

2660
01:44:37,550 --> 01:44:35,300
love it

2661
01:44:39,290 --> 01:44:37,560
yeah all right

2662
01:44:40,370 --> 01:44:39,300
um okay well one follow-up question well

2663
01:44:42,229 --> 01:44:40,380
it's not really a follow-up question

2664
01:44:43,310 --> 01:44:42,239
it's actually completely a disconnected

2665
01:44:46,370 --> 01:44:43,320
question

2666
01:44:48,260 --> 01:44:46,380
um uh but yeah uh we should hang out

2667
01:44:51,410 --> 01:44:48,270
sometimes it's not really a question

2668
01:44:52,090 --> 01:44:51,420
[Laughter]

2669
01:45:08,410 --> 01:44:52,100
yeah

2670
01:45:12,350 --> 01:45:08,420
both coasters Nick is Nick is Midwest I

2671
01:45:14,270 --> 01:45:12,360
exist in the [\h__\h] cable uh

2672
01:45:16,910 --> 01:45:14,280
beam my thoughts out to the rest of you

2673
01:45:20,930 --> 01:45:18,649
um also uh one other thing I wanted to

2674
01:45:23,750 --> 01:45:20,940
say um is that I'm going to be hosting a

2675
01:45:25,669 --> 01:45:23,760
premiere of episode four of my podcast

2676
01:45:28,609 --> 01:45:25,679
which is called the Earth

2677
01:45:31,550 --> 01:45:28,619
um tomorrow at 6 00 p.m that uh that

2678
01:45:33,830 --> 01:45:31,560
episode which uh I uh published last

2679
01:45:35,570 --> 01:45:33,840
year last December

2680
01:45:44,649 --> 01:45:35,580
um as an interview with Campbell about

2681
01:45:49,370 --> 01:45:47,510
join everybody that wants to talk about

2682
01:45:51,169 --> 01:45:49,380
it it should be interesting I really

2683
01:45:52,669 --> 01:45:51,179
enjoyed that conversation because it

2684
01:45:54,229 --> 01:45:52,679
goes deeply into what we're talking

2685
01:45:56,689 --> 01:45:54,239
about today observation versus

2686
01:45:59,330 --> 01:45:56,699
interpretation and how some observations

2687
01:46:01,910 --> 01:45:59,340
can uh shape somebody's entire identity

2688
01:46:04,850 --> 01:46:01,920
and the same observation can have almost

2689
01:46:07,189 --> 01:46:04,860
zero impact on somebody's world view so

2690
01:46:08,689 --> 01:46:07,199
uh yeah I think it should be fun yeah

2691
01:46:11,570 --> 01:46:08,699
yeah and the reason part of the reason

2692
01:46:13,970 --> 01:46:11,580
I'm premiering it as well is because

2693
01:46:17,330 --> 01:46:13,980
um I made like a kind of a video

2694
01:46:19,910 --> 01:46:17,340
accompaniment basically for it so yeah

2695
01:46:26,350 --> 01:46:19,920
thank you and that's uh that 6 p.m

2696
01:46:31,010 --> 01:46:28,850
yeah post the link in the YouTube chat

2697
01:46:32,930 --> 01:46:31,020
so uh other viewers can check out your

2698
01:46:34,729 --> 01:46:32,940
channel and check out the video premiere

2699
01:46:37,070 --> 01:46:34,739
tomorrow night all right thank you for

2700
01:46:38,689 --> 01:46:37,080
letting me share that of course of

2701
01:46:42,169 --> 01:46:38,699
course thanks so much for dropping in

2702
01:46:44,209 --> 01:46:42,179
see ya

2703
01:46:46,970 --> 01:46:44,219
can I just answer two quick questions

2704
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:46,980
people asked in the quiz well I'm gonna

2705
01:46:51,109 --> 01:46:49,440
say uh red panda qual asked me who I

2706
01:46:52,729 --> 01:46:51,119
could have dinner with from history you

2707
01:46:54,169 --> 01:46:52,739
have three people from UFO history I'd

2708
01:46:54,890 --> 01:46:54,179
have dinner with

2709
01:46:58,669 --> 01:46:54,900
um

2710
01:47:00,290 --> 01:46:58,679
probably heineck uh Richard Hall uh he's

2711
01:47:01,129 --> 01:47:00,300
there on nightcap

2712
01:47:03,530 --> 01:47:01,139
um

2713
01:47:06,290 --> 01:47:03,540
maybe Claude Pell here I don't know if

2714
01:47:08,270 --> 01:47:06,300
he's is he still alive uh who is that

2715
01:47:09,770 --> 01:47:08,280
I'm not familiar with that name

2716
01:47:12,850 --> 01:47:09,780
um so you know like the movie Close

2717
01:47:15,189 --> 01:47:12,860
Encounters the French scientists people

2718
01:47:18,709 --> 01:47:15,199
that everybody says

2719
01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:18,719
it's Claude Poe here and he was one of

2720
01:47:23,890 --> 01:47:21,360
like the founders of I think like deepon

2721
01:47:26,270 --> 01:47:23,900
or Japan yeah

2722
01:47:28,129 --> 01:47:26,280
it was like one of the original

2723
01:47:30,950 --> 01:47:28,139
resources back in the day he did a lot

2724
01:47:33,050 --> 01:47:30,960
of uh work on statistical analysis of

2725
01:47:35,030 --> 01:47:33,060
what times sightings happen like when

2726
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,040
people actually see UFOs

2727
01:47:39,649 --> 01:47:37,440
um that early work uh interesting yeah

2728
01:47:41,689 --> 01:47:39,659
he was a great great scientist

2729
01:47:44,390 --> 01:47:41,699
um and I will also I just want to

2730
01:47:46,609 --> 01:47:44,400
comment just something that I think it

2731
01:47:49,010 --> 01:47:46,619
was yeah you guys blocked saying again

2732
01:47:51,709 --> 01:47:49,020
there's this idea that he was he was

2733
01:47:52,970 --> 01:47:51,719
writing like the War and Peace diatribe

2734
01:47:56,270 --> 01:47:52,980
about how we're just a bunch of

2735
01:47:57,890 --> 01:47:56,280
debunking Skeptics yeah I I hear you we

2736
01:47:59,330 --> 01:47:57,900
heard you the first time dude I just

2737
01:48:01,070 --> 01:47:59,340
wanted to point out there's this common

2738
01:48:03,290 --> 01:48:01,080
theme that Skeptics don't know that

2739
01:48:05,330 --> 01:48:03,300
topic like people say there's no such

2740
01:48:08,450 --> 01:48:05,340
thing as an informed skeptic I'm sorry

2741
01:48:11,270 --> 01:48:08,460
that's utter nonsense like most of the

2742
01:48:13,550 --> 01:48:11,280
Skeptics I I know have studied this

2743
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:13,560
topic far more in depth than the average

2744
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:16,080
ufologist has like the idea that

2745
01:48:21,229 --> 01:48:18,000
Skeptics like just haven't done the

2746
01:48:23,149 --> 01:48:21,239
research is just flat long and like

2747
01:48:25,370 --> 01:48:23,159
let's be real that response to this show

2748
01:48:27,229 --> 01:48:25,380
just Belize a complete lack of

2749
01:48:29,570 --> 01:48:27,239
familiarity with the week over week

2750
01:48:32,149 --> 01:48:29,580
tenor of this conversation like this is

2751
01:48:34,250 --> 01:48:32,159
not a deeply skeptical show it tends to

2752
01:48:36,709 --> 01:48:34,260
flex and change based on who we're

2753
01:48:37,970 --> 01:48:36,719
talking to what we're talking about

2754
01:48:39,770 --> 01:48:37,980
Etc

2755
01:48:42,709 --> 01:48:39,780
um and I certainly don't think any of us

2756
01:48:45,109 --> 01:48:42,719
supposed to have conclusory evidence on

2757
01:48:47,450 --> 01:48:45,119
any subjects involved you know

2758
01:48:49,310 --> 01:48:47,460
um the idea that like intellectual

2759
01:48:51,350 --> 01:48:49,320
discourse has to become a might makes

2760
01:48:53,030 --> 01:48:51,360
right kind of Battle of the wills is

2761
01:48:55,250 --> 01:48:53,040
something that I personally will not

2762
01:48:57,410 --> 01:48:55,260
cultivate or engage with and I certainly

2763
01:48:59,930 --> 01:48:57,420
will not cultivate a community or

2764
01:49:02,209 --> 01:48:59,940
culture around this show uh in which

2765
01:49:04,450 --> 01:49:02,219
sort of this argumentary is at the heart

2766
01:49:07,189 --> 01:49:04,460
of it absolutely not

2767
01:49:10,010 --> 01:49:07,199
I don't agree with a lot of people that

2768
01:49:12,229 --> 01:49:10,020
I love like I disagree with people in

2769
01:49:16,010 --> 01:49:12,239
the history group all the time like yeah

2770
01:49:17,810 --> 01:49:16,020
I just I but we still get along like I'm

2771
01:49:19,370 --> 01:49:17,820
not gonna argue with Don Smith about

2772
01:49:21,169 --> 01:49:19,380
Roswell doesn't mean I have to agree

2773
01:49:23,390 --> 01:49:21,179
with him on Raw as well like you know

2774
01:49:26,209 --> 01:49:23,400
like we can get along and have

2775
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:26,219
discussions and not agree on things even

2776
01:49:29,930 --> 01:49:28,800
on our own Discord like disagree with

2777
01:49:32,750 --> 01:49:29,940
things all the time and that's

2778
01:49:35,570 --> 01:49:32,760
completely fine yeah and I think the

2779
01:49:36,530 --> 01:49:35,580
other thing too just uh a word to the

2780
01:49:39,350 --> 01:49:36,540
was

2781
01:49:41,629 --> 01:49:39,360
um there's also something to be said for

2782
01:49:43,790 --> 01:49:41,639
being able to succinctly and coherently

2783
01:49:45,530 --> 01:49:43,800
deliver a point like at a certain point

2784
01:49:47,090 --> 01:49:45,540
it's a 20 minute Shaggy Dog story and

2785
01:49:48,530 --> 01:49:47,100
we're all waiting for the punch line but

2786
01:49:52,010 --> 01:49:48,540
I'm not sure how many times we can hear

2787
01:49:54,649 --> 01:49:52,020
the same six words repeated uh before we

2788
01:49:56,270 --> 01:49:54,659
just kind of lose interest so

2789
01:49:58,189 --> 01:49:56,280
um you people are welcome to be

2790
01:50:00,169 --> 01:49:58,199
discursive but maybe endlessly

2791
01:50:01,790 --> 01:50:00,179
repetitive is perhaps not the best path

2792
01:50:03,649 --> 01:50:01,800
to take when it comes to discussing

2793
01:50:05,570 --> 01:50:03,659
things with the

2794
01:50:08,330 --> 01:50:05,580
um inimitable faculty of the invisible

2795
01:50:11,149 --> 01:50:08,340
night school well I had a genuine to

2796
01:50:14,750 --> 01:50:13,370
yeah no I did too I was like am I

2797
01:50:17,090 --> 01:50:14,760
missing a thread here like what's the

2798
01:50:18,830 --> 01:50:17,100
punchline is it that the missiles are so

2799
01:50:21,649 --> 01:50:18,840
far away from each other that it

2800
01:50:24,430 --> 01:50:21,659
couldn't have been the EMP thing uh you

2801
01:50:28,669 --> 01:50:24,440
know but and I wanted to say that I was

2802
01:50:30,709 --> 01:50:28,679
citing the foia documents that the

2803
01:50:32,090 --> 01:50:30,719
government reports did and he was saying

2804
01:50:33,890 --> 01:50:32,100
oh they don't go that you know nobody

2805
01:50:35,270 --> 01:50:33,900
went to a mental institution because

2806
01:50:37,010 --> 01:50:35,280
they reported it's like no they did

2807
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:37,020
report it and we have the documents

2808
01:50:40,970 --> 01:50:39,360
right look dude I'm also like as someone

2809
01:50:42,770 --> 01:50:40,980
who has not actually been in the

2810
01:50:44,330 --> 01:50:42,780
military but has been part and parcel to

2811
01:50:46,370 --> 01:50:44,340
a whole lot of security clearance and

2812
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:46,380
cute clearance style work

2813
01:50:50,870 --> 01:50:49,440
um one of my exes had Q clearance

2814
01:50:53,930 --> 01:50:50,880
um like

2815
01:50:57,050 --> 01:50:53,940
I I also don't suppose that an enlisted

2816
01:50:59,270 --> 01:50:57,060
guy who did a couple rounds also is

2817
01:51:00,770 --> 01:50:59,280
somehow privy to extraordinary amounts

2818
01:51:02,629 --> 01:51:00,780
of classified information on this

2819
01:51:06,109 --> 01:51:02,639
subject and just happens to be tripping

2820
01:51:08,570 --> 01:51:06,119
Upon Our um coming across our show and

2821
01:51:10,010 --> 01:51:08,580
suddenly is going to Avail just uh

2822
01:51:12,470 --> 01:51:10,020
extraordinary amounts of you know

2823
01:51:14,149 --> 01:51:12,480
unrealized knowledge like well maybe he

2824
01:51:15,950 --> 01:51:14,159
had that knowledge but he wasn't uh

2825
01:51:17,530 --> 01:51:15,960
conveying it effects effectively

2826
01:51:20,410 --> 01:51:17,540
unfortunately

2827
01:51:23,090 --> 01:51:20,420
I didn't see what it had to do with

2828
01:51:24,649 --> 01:51:23,100
geography or or that really the issue we

2829
01:51:26,570 --> 01:51:24,659
were talking about was the

2830
01:51:29,870 --> 01:51:26,580
technicalities between the shutdown yeah

2831
01:51:32,330 --> 01:51:29,880
the issue is more the timeline with the

2832
01:51:34,250 --> 01:51:32,340
shutdown we know happened and the then

2833
01:51:35,870 --> 01:51:34,260
that there's records for and then the

2834
01:51:38,510 --> 01:51:35,880
Solace event that allegedly happened

2835
01:51:40,669 --> 01:51:38,520
again weeks later that we have no

2836
01:51:42,890 --> 01:51:40,679
evidence for it wasn't right of

2837
01:51:44,990 --> 01:51:42,900
geography it's whether Solace is even

2838
01:51:47,330 --> 01:51:45,000
talking about the same thing or not well

2839
01:51:49,550 --> 01:51:47,340
what we can prove about that as you've

2840
01:51:52,550 --> 01:51:49,560
named appointed it several times Jeff is

2841
01:51:55,310 --> 01:51:52,560
that we know for a fact that Salas has

2842
01:51:58,010 --> 01:51:55,320
on the record changed his account three

2843
01:52:00,050 --> 01:51:58,020
times now yeah so that's what we do know

2844
01:52:01,729 --> 01:52:00,060
and that it doesn't mean that nothing

2845
01:52:03,950 --> 01:52:01,739
happened but it means that we have to

2846
01:52:07,430 --> 01:52:03,960
really look at that carefully

2847
01:52:10,250 --> 01:52:07,440
because we know Solace was not working

2848
01:52:12,590 --> 01:52:10,260
during the echo flight shutdown it was

2849
01:52:14,330 --> 01:52:12,600
two weeks later and yeah so and like I

2850
01:52:16,250 --> 01:52:14,340
said they the things get mixed together

2851
01:52:18,290 --> 01:52:16,260
people think there was a Maelstrom case

2852
01:52:20,510 --> 01:52:18,300
like no there was stuff shut down and

2853
01:52:22,189 --> 01:52:20,520
then there was a Solace case and

2854
01:52:24,229 --> 01:52:22,199
you need to be clear what you're talking

2855
01:52:25,609 --> 01:52:24,239
about and because people talk about

2856
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:25,619
sauce and they talk about all the

2857
01:52:28,790 --> 01:52:27,119
documents the documents aren't for the

2858
01:52:30,830 --> 01:52:28,800
Solace case the documents are for Echo

2859
01:52:33,350 --> 01:52:30,840
flight that happened two weeks earlier

2860
01:52:35,270 --> 01:52:33,360
and that's it's a timeline issue not a

2861
01:52:38,390 --> 01:52:35,280
geography thing yeah in my opinion

2862
01:52:40,990 --> 01:52:39,649
yeah

2863
01:52:44,209 --> 01:52:41,000
well

2864
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:44,219
all right go read Tim Hibbert's website

2865
01:52:49,250 --> 01:52:46,080
about about Maelstrom it's everything

2866
01:52:52,189 --> 01:52:49,260
the Jim Hibbert's website parting words

2867
01:52:53,810 --> 01:52:52,199
for Mr Jeff Knox so um it is just about

2868
01:52:56,450 --> 01:52:53,820
that timer almost at the top of the hour

2869
01:52:57,890 --> 01:52:56,460
let's do a quick Round Table uh Campbell

2870
01:53:01,310 --> 01:52:57,900
what's going on

2871
01:53:03,530 --> 01:53:01,320
oh not then on the UFO front just uh

2872
01:53:04,629 --> 01:53:03,540
just uh stuff around here so I won't go

2873
01:53:06,950 --> 01:53:04,639
into it

2874
01:53:10,669 --> 01:53:06,960
what about here Louise what do you got

2875
01:53:14,030 --> 01:53:10,679
going on the same same with you

2876
01:53:19,010 --> 01:53:17,149
let's keep this party going Nick I'm not

2877
01:53:20,629 --> 01:53:19,020
doing anything right now the most

2878
01:53:22,250 --> 01:53:20,639
interesting show in the business right

2879
01:53:24,229 --> 01:53:22,260
here yeah this guy's like they think

2880
01:53:26,270 --> 01:53:24,239
they know everything they're constantly

2881
01:53:28,250 --> 01:53:26,280
working on this we're like I don't know

2882
01:53:30,050 --> 01:53:28,260
any of that is not doing nothing

2883
01:53:32,570 --> 01:53:30,060
you know after the vehicle interference

2884
01:53:34,910 --> 01:53:32,580
uh I'm looking for another Avenue to go

2885
01:53:36,649 --> 01:53:34,920
down because that wasn't much fun but um

2886
01:53:37,490 --> 01:53:36,659
yeah that was good that was awesome I

2887
01:53:39,290 --> 01:53:37,500
just

2888
01:53:40,910 --> 01:53:39,300
yeah I need another Direction I haven't

2889
01:53:42,770 --> 01:53:40,920
found it yet so I'm just waiting until

2890
01:53:45,550 --> 01:53:42,780
something strikes my fancy

2891
01:53:51,169 --> 01:53:49,189
thing I do every day basically that's I

2892
01:53:52,430 --> 01:53:51,179
spent about eight to ten hours going

2893
01:53:55,370 --> 01:53:52,440
through stuff to put together the

2894
01:53:58,370 --> 01:53:55,380
history post I do seven days a week uh

2895
01:54:00,590 --> 01:53:58,380
however sad that may be but uh uh yeah

2896
01:54:02,750 --> 01:54:00,600
I'm basically doing this stuff full time

2897
01:54:04,729 --> 01:54:02,760
so uh that takes up all my time from

2898
01:54:07,070 --> 01:54:04,739
when I go to bed at night to when I wake

2899
01:54:08,689 --> 01:54:07,080
up in the morning I greatly appreciate

2900
01:54:10,910 --> 01:54:08,699
your Daily Posts

2901
01:54:13,430 --> 01:54:10,920
um I actually I save archives of them

2902
01:54:16,310 --> 01:54:13,440
myself uh with thread reader so keep

2903
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:16,320
doing it please yep yeah yeah Jeff

2904
01:54:20,030 --> 01:54:17,760
delighted to have you on especially on

2905
01:54:22,729 --> 01:54:20,040
such short notice so

2906
01:54:25,370 --> 01:54:22,739
um looking down the barrel at the next

2907
01:54:28,970 --> 01:54:25,380
few weeks uh next week the 25th we are

2908
01:54:30,890 --> 01:54:28,980
joined by the illustrious Mick West uh

2909
01:54:33,109 --> 01:54:30,900
pretty excited to talk about the uh

2910
01:54:34,189 --> 01:54:33,119
Congressional report that came out

2911
01:54:37,070 --> 01:54:34,199
um I'm looking forward to asking

2912
01:54:39,470 --> 01:54:37,080
questions about psychedelics metaphysics

2913
01:54:41,570 --> 01:54:39,480
um it'll be a great conversation uh the

2914
01:54:43,970 --> 01:54:41,580
week after we have Sarah skulls uh

2915
01:54:46,250 --> 01:54:43,980
author of there already here she's a UFO

2916
01:54:49,550 --> 01:54:46,260
reporter and writer and then on the 8th

2917
01:54:50,930 --> 01:54:49,560
we're joined by Tom uh Tom orchowski I'm

2918
01:54:52,729 --> 01:54:50,940
not sure how to pronounce his last name

2919
01:54:54,649 --> 01:54:52,739
but he is the artist and creator of

2920
01:54:57,709 --> 01:54:54,659
estimate of the situation which is a

2921
01:55:00,109 --> 01:54:57,719
comic I actually he was kind enough to

2922
01:55:04,270 --> 01:55:00,119
pass on my way special edition with the

2923
01:55:07,010 --> 01:55:04,280
the hey look man awesome yeah

2924
01:55:07,970 --> 01:55:07,020
I'm the cute one man I'm owning a good

2925
01:55:08,629 --> 01:55:07,980
swag

2926
01:55:12,290 --> 01:55:08,639
um

2927
01:55:13,850 --> 01:55:12,300
then you know we have some other great

2928
01:55:15,830 --> 01:55:13,860
people just coming down the pike into

2929
01:55:18,109 --> 01:55:15,840
the spring Marco Visconti who writes on

2930
01:55:20,270 --> 01:55:18,119
occultism magic and esoteric Traditions

2931
01:55:22,430 --> 01:55:20,280
we'll have Jeff from strange Recon and

2932
01:55:24,410 --> 01:55:22,440
then we'll also be joined by Jay who

2933
01:55:26,870 --> 01:55:24,420
runs pericon to talk about crypto

2934
01:55:28,490 --> 01:55:26,880
anti-strangeness Etc so we're pretty

2935
01:55:30,290 --> 01:55:28,500
much uh I guess we have a real show

2936
01:55:32,570 --> 01:55:30,300
we're like booked out for like eight

2937
01:55:35,870 --> 01:55:32,580
weeks it's very cool

2938
01:55:39,830 --> 01:55:37,669
that's a great list of guests everybody

2939
01:55:42,790 --> 01:55:39,840
should read Sarah skull's book they're

2940
01:55:46,570 --> 01:55:42,800
already here that's a phenomenal book

2941
01:55:48,709 --> 01:55:46,580
last book Escaping The Rabbit Hole

2942
01:55:50,090 --> 01:55:48,719
I also feel like we're definitely making

2943
01:55:51,590 --> 01:55:50,100
it too because we're increasingly

2944
01:55:53,209 --> 01:55:51,600
getting people that are big mad about

2945
01:55:56,030 --> 01:55:53,219
things we say

2946
01:55:58,189 --> 01:55:56,040
um it's not just a lovely super

2947
01:56:00,050 --> 01:55:58,199
supportive group anymore it's not people

2948
01:56:01,970 --> 01:56:00,060
that have take contention with some of

2949
01:56:03,709 --> 01:56:01,980
the opinions voiced so as far as I'm

2950
01:56:05,689 --> 01:56:03,719
concerned we're fostering conversation

2951
01:56:08,450 --> 01:56:05,699
we're always aiming to elevate the

2952
01:56:10,430 --> 01:56:08,460
conversation good faith dialogue none of

2953
01:56:13,070 --> 01:56:10,440
us are coming from any particular

2954
01:56:16,189 --> 01:56:13,080
conclusory positions we all just want to

2955
01:56:17,510 --> 01:56:16,199
learn talk discuss together

2956
01:56:19,790 --> 01:56:17,520
um so

2957
01:56:21,890 --> 01:56:19,800
on that note I think I'm ready to say

2958
01:56:24,050 --> 01:56:21,900
goodnight to all of you guys it is

2959
01:56:25,930 --> 01:56:24,060
bedtime it is bedtime all right good

2960
01:56:30,740 --> 01:56:25,940
night gentlemen I will see you next week

2961
01:57:09,230 --> 01:56:46,790
[Music]

2962
01:57:30,609 --> 01:57:09,240
[Applause]